Sunday, August 2, 2009
Why Clifton Is So Fragrant
From the YouTube info:
"1:48 PM On July 30th, this youth decided to urinate in direct view of our cameras (at Broadway and Clifton). Later at 3:09 AM this guy has to go so bad he can only stop to get it out before doing the walk & pee. This is why Clifton smells like it does folks."
Update: A new (old) video from December has been uploaded featuring everyone's favorite street, Clifton.
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What is going on with this pitiful little stretch of a street? It's like a Petri Dish of all the rank behavior in Uptown.
ReplyDeleteOn another note, the local TV media was ALL over the muggings/robberies going on in the wee hours on the streets of Lincoln Park. Gasp! With local residents saying 'this kind of thing doesn't happen here'.
Lincoln Park? "Oh no, not here!" Uptown? Just another day.
Great video - these guys seriously need to get locked up
ReplyDeleteThe Lincoln Park area will ALWAYS garner more media attention than anywhere else, like it or not. That is because that's where the money is. But putting all that aside, I hope everyone is aware that there is a growing problem in the more affluent areas, of groups of male blacks and hispanics attacking white people simply for the pleasure of it. It's been a problem further south in that Police District (018) for some time but now it seems to be pushing further north.
ReplyDeleteThis just isn't that big of a deal.
ReplyDeleteThis street really is bad. I have smelled it as I walked by. I think far too many others are too. The grass by the Tennis courts in Clarendon park is turning brown. So many homeless use it as their bathroom I try not to look out at it from my window as when I do I see the homeless that sleep their nightly leaking there all the time. Wish something could be done...
ReplyDeleteStu Piddy, it's not that big of a deal to some because they've grown so used to it. It shouldn't be Uptown = low standards of conduct. If we have any respect for all the people living here (rich, poor, and those in between), then we should be working together to change the status quo.
ReplyDeleteYou're right Stu...the folks in Wrigleyville have to put up with this kind of thing during about 50% of the summer.
ReplyDeleteStarck Mad asks, "What is going on with this pitiful little stretch of a street?"
ReplyDeleteIt seems to me that people are treating Clifton as if it were an alley. Please don't take what I am about to write as me condoning public urination or drug dealing as we have seen in this video and others. Those behaviors are illegal anywhere.
What I mean to suggest is that there is something about the visual cues about this stretch of Clifton that reads "alley" to some people. It a one-way, its behind EL tracks, there are few windows facing the street and it makes an odd curve. For some reason, people seem to be coming off that stretch of Broadway (paradise that it is!) and finding this spot more desirable to piss and make drug exchanges. So it seems to me that even that stretch of Broadway is able to demand a certain amount of civil behavior. I think the question to ask about this stretch of Clifton, then, is what could be done to make it look less like an alley? Trees/greenery? Lights? Windows? Public art? More signage?
Gayle and Stu, if this is no big deal to you, perhaps you should consider how you'd feel if every day, every hour, someone peed right in front of your house. On your house, your car, your curb, your flowers. Every day, every night. Your entire entryway reeks of pee, in the hot weather, when it rains. Your flowers die, your grass is brown. Your door starts to rust and corrode from the constant pee. Would it be a big deal then?
ReplyDeletei walk by Blood Alley almost everyday and have to say the public drinking, passed-out bodies, and general well being of this street and corner is disgusting. It's much worse now than when I moved here 9 years ago.
ReplyDeleteFollow the money. Who are the funders for Cornerstone and Sylvia Center? What are the standards and codes that these shelters are supposed to adhere to in being a responsible organization? Organize and hold them accountable for this crap. UCC, GWNA and MMN should start the community outcry.
There are some people in this world who only find something undesirable if it directly affects them; i.e., graffiti is art until it's done on my personal property and then it's wrong.
ReplyDeleteChicago Community Trust is one of the Cornerstone funders. I wonder what their response would be after viewing the videos.
ReplyDeleteOther funders?
If so many people use Clifton as a urinal, why not just add a couple of public bathrooms?
ReplyDeleteI'll play dumb and pretend the public bathroom won't transform into a private drug consumption area.
Katherine, in this video it appears to be some kid from the neighborhood or who knows where who decided to relieve himself on Clifton. How is Cornerstone responsible for him? How do you know if he has anything to do with Cornerstone? Cornerstone itself has plenty of washrooms for its shetler guests to use. Tell me, is Truman square neighbor responsible for the people who urinate in front of his or her home? If not, why are you targeting Cornerstone? Should you be responsible for the people who might urinate in front or near your home? Seems like a baseless attack on Cornerstone on your part.
ReplyDeleteHow is this any different than those who think its ok for their dogs to P & S anywhere and everywhere? The results are the same; brown grass, stench, etc.
ReplyDelete"I hope everyone is aware that there is a growing problem in the more affluent areas, of groups of male blacks and hispanics attacking white people simply for the pleasure of it."
ReplyDeleteReally? Roving packs of minorites preying on white folk, just for fun? This is news to me, and I consider myself pretty on top of things. Do you have any proof of this (newspaper reports, police records), or is this the same racist bullshit that comes out every summer?
ihatemondays, are you implying that it's the same thing for dogs and humans to pee outside on city streets? Please confirm!
ReplyDeleteTNS...Oh dear, I forgot, a lot of folks don't understand quips, satire, or in some cases humor in any form. I'm not condoning this sort of thing in Uptown, Wrigleyville or the Gold Coast. Yes, some sort of "improvements" do have to be made to Clifton and other off-the-beaten-path locations to encourage more civil behavior. My point, again, was that in the absence of easily accessible public facilities, people (especially males for...uh...obvious reasons) will find a way to "improvise." (We ladies tend to just try to hold it forever, or find some ruse to get into a "restricted" public restroom. We're just real Victorian that way, I guess.)
ReplyDelete"Do you have any proof of this (newspaper reports, police records)," Ask Big Daddy what his job is. I think you'll find he has a pretty good idea about what kinds of crime trends are going on. I don't know if he's racist, but he does know about crime.
ReplyDeleteIHateMondays,
ReplyDeleteI guess the difference is how would you feel if your 3 year old daughter was with you and witnessed a man pulling out his penis to urinate? Do you see how that might be a different experience for a young child?
Now, you may not have a 3 year old daughter but do you think there might be people in this neighborhood who do have young children and would rather not have their children see adults exposing their genitals while they urinate in the alley?
Kevin, granted not the kid in this photo, but do you really think the urination problem is isolated to 10 year old boys urinating in this area? Do you really think the people gathered around there have nothing to with Cornerstone? Really and honestly?
Go on over to Marine and Lawrence, another family shelter and let me know if you see any difference with what you observe (besides the two shelters being located in 2 different wards.) If you don't see a bunch of people loitering at Marine Drive and Lawrence, ask yourself why that might be the case.
it's also awesome to be working out at the gym and see men peeing in the alley right in front of you, something i've seen twice in the past week. what a visual :(
ReplyDeleteTNS...Oh dear, I forgot, a lot of folks don't understand quips, satire, or in some cases humor in any form. gayle
ReplyDeletePerhaps TSN misunderstood your communication but I have to wonder if your communication skills could use a little help?
Who here ever said it was okay for a dog to pee or poop wherever? I certainly don't let my dog pee/poop in an alley, on a building, on any gate, etc. She's only allowed to go in the grass on the parkway between buildings and roads. If it's #2, I pick it up.
ReplyDeleteWe shouldn't distract from the real issue here, IHM.
holey...What is the point of your questions? What in my comment indicated I think public urination is limited to 10 year olds? For the record, I am quite sure people of all ages urinate in public, as well as people of both sexes and people who own a condo or are homeless alike. Do I think people hanging around cornerstone have nothing to do with cornerstone? When did I give that impression? Can you tell just by looking who is involved with cornerstone and who isn't? I am sure a lot of the people hanging out by cornerstone are involved with cornerstone. So what? I am sure a lot of the people hanging out around Wrigley after a game have something to do with the game at Wrigley. What is your point?
ReplyDeleteKatharine unfairly and wrongly used this video as a pretext for attacking cornerstone and I busted her on it. I know unfounded attacks on the homeless and homeless providers is very popular with some as it reinforces the martyr complex that seems so popular, but I ain't going for it.
Thank you, Marathoner! When I was growing up people took their dogs to the alley or a secluded patch of vegetation. A friend of mine had a dog with an amazing sense of modesty in that regard. I am truly shocked at the number of Chicagoans who have taught their dogs to ignore the alley in favor of the neighbor's property.
ReplyDeleteYou, sir, are the kind of dog person that a cat person can appreciate!
Not a racist at all, simply reporting the facts. It's been going on for awhile. If you wish to ignore it and file it in the "he's just a racist file" fine, I really don't care. I only posted it in response to Stark Mad's post and so that potential victims are aware of it. Your choice. There will be no further comment on this subject by me.
ReplyDeleteI am sure a lot of the people hanging out by cornerstone are involved with cornerstone. So what? I am sure a lot of the people hanging out around Wrigley after a game have something to do with the game at Wrigley. What is your point? Kevin
ReplyDeleteMy point is that you won't find residents at the Salvation Army family shelter at Marine Drive and Lawrence doing this type of behavior and you do find this type of behavior happening with the residents of Cornerstone.
Now, either the residents at the Salvation Army are naturally more polite there or perhaps it has something to do with their management.
Cornerstone could do a much better job of placing expectations on their residents as Salvation Army does. That's my point. If they can't, then it's understandable why people like Katherine want to step it up a little to get Cornerstone's attention.
holey...where is your proof that anyone staying at cornerstone engages in this behavior? Are you saying this kid in the video stays at Cornerstone? PROOVE IT. People staying at Cornerstone can simply go inside and use a bathroom. You showing a clear lack of and disregard for objectivity. All of this is just a pretext to unfairly attack Cornerstone.
ReplyDeleteholey....also there is a significant difference between who the Salvation Army Lodge serves and who Cornerstone serves. For example, the Salvation Army shelter for families does not shelter single men, whereas Cornerstone does. There are others, but that is the simplist difference to highlite. you are comparing apples to oranges.
ReplyDeleteholey...where is your proof that anyone staying at cornerstone engages in this behavior? Are you saying this kid in the video stays at Cornerstone? PROOVE IT. Kevin
ReplyDeleteDo I think people hanging around cornerstone have nothing to do with cornerstone? When did I give that impression? Can you tell just by looking who is involved with cornerstone and who isn't? I am sure a lot of the people hanging out by cornerstone are involved with cornerstone. So what? Kevin
Kevin, read what you yourself wrote in italics.
There's a reason why we don't see this behavior at Lawrence and Marine Drive and a reason why we do see it at Clifton and Wilson. It's not a big mystery waiting to be solved.
An entire post dedicated to pee...
ReplyDeleteSlow news day?
holey..I read it. So what? You make absolutely no point. Are you saying that everyone that hangs out on Clifton there urinates in the alley? And since some of the Cornerstone guests hang out on Cliftonk they must urinate in the alley too? Is that your logic? Dude, you need to buy a book on critical thinking and put it into practice.
ReplyDeleteAnd please, tell us the reason we see the differences in behavior. Do you have anything besides innuendo or the false argument that since two events are correlated, one must cause the other?
What I want to know is how and why you associate this kids behavior with Cornerstone? I think the reason is because it lends itself to your agenda to try and demonize everything you can about the homeless and homeless providers in the 46th ward. Finding truth is not your objective.
Kevin, I know what I see. The area around Cornerstone is wild and the area around Salvation Army at Marine Drive is quiet with no loitering. If the reason for the difference is a mystery to you, then so be it, but you may not want to point fingers about one's critical thinking ability.
ReplyDeleteI'm betting Salvation Army won't tolerate anyone from anywhere peeing anywhere near their premises. Perhaps that's why we don't have these same kinds of stories about Salvation Army.
You can continue thinking that everyone's picking on Cornerstone for absolutely no reason except they don't like religious people if you want. Sorry to disappoint you there,but "accountability" is not a 4 letter word.
Judging by his aggresiveness, I suspect that Kevin is really Denise Davis. His/Her posts fit here lyrical style.
ReplyDeleteSadly, peeing is the lesser of the evils on Clifton. The drug dealing and use is rampant. Also, GLI, try to connect the dots with Big Daddy and take a wild guess at his occupation. He just might have some good information.
ReplyDeleteKevin, do you agree that drug dealing and use on Clifton is a bad thing? Just curious. I do not care what businesses are on that street. The people who run businesses there, along with the people who live nearby need to assist the police to stop the crime on that block. End of story.
I think Kevin and Holey Moley should get together for a beer at the White House.
ReplyDeleteLike the famous book, "Everybody Poops" everybody has to pee. However, like Shillsgang noted, this (at least up here) is a just a footnote to the bigger issues.
ReplyDeleteDrugs and gangs.
Flash forward a year or two.....the cynic in me says that what we'll see at Wilson Yard will make the antics on Clifton seem quaint.
Hey Kevin please remember that Clifton is a street and not an alley!! Not that it is acceptable to use either as a restroom...
ReplyDeleteHoley...Clearly you have no idea of the differences between Cornerstone and the Lodge and have only innuendo to offer as a means of impugning Cornerstone. You have had ample opportunity to be specific. You believe because since people loiter on Clifton but not so much at Lawrence and Marine by the Lodge, the reason must be the management attitudes of the respective shelters (or their alderperson). That is rather simplistic, naive, and uninformed. The differences between the two are no mystery to me and there are multiple and varied differences between the two including factors neither shelter staff can control, such as their respective locations. Clifton street or blood alley is a more apt location for hanging out as it is somewhat secluded which is probably the same reason the kid in this video and others use it for a latrine where as the Lodge is enclosed on private property. Another factor that figures into people loitering around Cornerstone is that they serve meals to their shelter guests as well as people not staying at the shelter on Clifton and those people coming from outside for meals there will hang out while waiting for meals to be served. The Lodge does not offer meals to outsiders the same way. I am very familiar with both, having placed people and worked with people at both location and having spent plenty of time in both shelters.
ReplyDeleteBut again, I understand your true agenda is not a rational discussion of homeless services.
Shills gang...absolutely I am against the drug dealing on Clifton or anywhere else. It is a bad thing. I would totally support a police camera being installed there so the cops could monitor it and bust the dealers working there. Seeking to support those experiencing homelessnes and homeless providers and opposing gang crime and drug dealing are not mutually exclusive.
To be named later....I know Clifton is a street and I have not writen anything suppporting people using it as a latrine. I have only been writing to counter those who seek to blame Cornerstone for people like this kid who choose to go down Clifton to pee or those who choose to deal drugs there.
Although I live near Clark & Montrose I NEVER ride the Red Line because I HATE HATE HATE walking anywhere NEAR Wilson & Broadway & Clifton.
ReplyDeleteI take the Brown Line to Montrose to AVOID all the SCUM BAGS who litter, pee (YES and it's DISGUSTING!) smell as if they have never seen a bar of soap, smoke and drop butts everywhere, and have the need to yell at their friends as if everyone was hard of hearing. Oh yeah, and use the F word every other word, and SELL THEIR DRUGS, and DROP THEIR FRIGGIN GARBAGE AND LOOK AT ME AS IF I HAD JUST LANDED FROM OUTER SPACE and JUST GENERALLY ANNOY THE HELL OF OUT ME.
That's why I AVOID THAT ENTIRE AREA. UGH
I just took a stroll down this stretch of Clifton and came across a Mom sipping cocktails surrounded by her kids and several intoxicated men. Yes, Kevin, kids.
ReplyDeleteThere is a new video up on the same youtube channel uptownsmostwanted that shows a "guest" of the Cornerstone Shelter using one of the "Plenty of Washrooms" that they have all up and down clifton. Hope UU gets it up for debate. I'm sure there is more PROOF to come from a "Reality TV" style youtube channel.
ReplyDeleteKevin, if you were an advocate for homeless families, no way would you be accepting of the crime that occurs in and around Clifton and Wilson. The homeless families living there are among the most vulnerable in the entire city and you, Kevin, don’t seem concerned about what these families witness in the way of crime everyday. Is that because homeless families don’t deserve appropriate standards of care?
ReplyDeleteIf Cornerstone cannot create a safe environment for their clients, then they are in way over their heads. The difference with Salvation Army’s Lodge is that they won’t place their families in those kinds of circumstances because they know these families need less chaos, not more.
But putting all that aside, I hope everyone is aware that there is a growing problem in the more affluent areas, of groups of male blacks and hispanics attacking white people simply for the pleasure of it.
ReplyDeleteOfficer BigDaddy has some interesting racial theories, but judging by the photograph in the Tribune, the latest victim was black.
Mugging victim: Bike lock was 'saving grace'
The video that "filthyfi" mentioned is now added to this post.
ReplyDeletemoley...so, I see you read my post where I wrote that I supported putting a police camera on Clifton so cops can bust the drug dealers and other criminals there (12:33), and you have brilliantly concluded that I am accepting of the crime around there and am not concerned about the crime that families witness? Obviously because I support the homeless and the service providers faced the difficult task of trying create change in their lives, I support crime. You are one sharp cookie. And obviously my other posts were all about accepting criminal activities. It is also obvious you can not counter or critically respond to anything I wrote, so you have to make things up like my accepting crime or that absolute garbage about 'the difference is the Sal Army Lodge is blah, blah, blah...' that was just absolutely senseless. You know nothing about either shelter.
ReplyDeleteAnd actually Cornerstone creates a very safe environment for its guests. Anyone who threatens another guest in Cornerstone or behaves criminally is promptly evicted. People are very safe there.
What any member of the public does on Clifton street is not the responsibility of Cornerstone, any more than it is the responsibility of the recording studio there. Are you to blame for any criminal activity that occurs around your home? If you think the crime in Blood Alley is there because Cornerstone is there, you should have seen that stretch of Clifton in the 80's before Cornerstone showed up.
What any member of the public does on Clifton street is not the responsibility of Cornerstone, any more than it is the responsibility of the recording studio there. Kevin
ReplyDeleteWhat Salvation Army Lodge would say is that it is their responsibility and most especially if it was their clients contributing to the problem. They provide care that's within their abilities. But that's the difference between the 2 shelters, isn't it?
You know Kevin, I have to disagree with you that it's okay to provide the homeless with a low standard of care. I think the homeless deserve better.
"And actually Cornerstone creates a very safe environment for its guests."
ReplyDeleteLike the kids in the daycare were safe when they were in the same facility with the "guests" from the mens shelter (since closed by Lisa Madigan), some of whom were registered child molesters?
Like the "guests" were safe with 76building code violations in the overnight shelter (have those all been cleared up yet?) My favorite was water dripping on a rusted live electricity box.
Like the "guests" were safe when Cornerstone decided to lock them in overnight, with no exit, to avoid them wandering out and creating community complaints?
I drive and walk down Clifton all the time, and somehow "safety" isn't the first word that comes to mind. Doesn't more than a third of the 911 calls in the entire precinct revolve around the activities on Clifton?
Kevin, just curious... who do you work for in your social service career?
Kevin and Moley should get together and go bowling.
ReplyDelete"trumansquarenabr", so what's your answer to the problem if you think people are not safe at cornerstone? shut the place down and send everyone to....where? Markham, Chicago Heights, the west side, Gary?
ReplyDeletewe know you don't support any more affordable housing or shelters in uptown (the whole "concentration of poverty thing"). so where do you want people to go? it seems to me that it doesn't really matter to you that much does it, as long as they get out of the neighborhood you live in.
i can't speak for the conditions at cornerstone, although i do drop by there a couple times a week for about a minute to drop off food.
but i bet if there were some better places to go for the families that stay there, they would probably go to them! the problem is that there aren't many places out there for very low income people to go to. so even if cornerstone isn't a safe place, as you claim, it might be the safest place available to people who need it. it's sad to see you exploit the hardships of people to push an agenda that is contrary to their needs.
Oh, Ron, there you go with your straw man again. Putting claims into my mouth and then shooting them down.
ReplyDeleteWhat would I do to make Cornerstone safer? Hmmm. I wouldn't lock people in at night with no exit. I'd clean up the building violations, including those that could easily start a fire in the facility where people are locked in overnight. I wouldn't put children in the same facility with child sexual predators.
Hard, huh?
Ron says "it's sad to see you exploit the hardships of people to push an agenda that is contrary to their needs."
ReplyDeleteThat doesn't sound like TSN, but it sure sounds like someone we all know and can't stand...
No matter how much you shake and dance............
ReplyDeleteThe last drop always falls in your pants.
Sorry, had to!
Isn't it illegal for a public shelter (as opposed to private homes or penitential facilities) to "lock people in at night with no exit?" Haven't there been some tragic cases of fires at nursing homes, etc. that followed that policy?
ReplyDelete