By LORRAINE SWANSON, Editor
Uptown’s gangbangers are reported to be fighting within their own ranks, Sgt. Mark Forrest told residents attending the CAPS Beat 2313 meeting at Clarendon Park earlier this month.
Forrest, who supervises the 23rd Police District’s plainclothes tactical teams, said that a shooting in the early morning hours of May 12 was “inter-gang” related.
“It was related to anger over drug proceeds,” Forrest said.
Read the rest of the story here, at Lake Effect News.
Graphic courtesy of JamesFor46Ward; click to enlarge.
So, what they are saying is that we know all about these criminals, but we don't do anything about it? They claim territory? Really? F them!
ReplyDeleteThey must hold political power.
The 17-yr old suspect has 12 prior's? I see he's been a model citizen.
ReplyDeleteI have no pity for the 'bangers shooting each other. As others have said here, I just wish their aim was better and they only hit each other.
a 17-year-old man who is a known Vice Lord with 12 prior offenses.12?
ReplyDeleteNo matter, I feel so much safer knowing that with all of this craziness going on, Helen's been able to shoo-away one bad landlord.
I read the article at the lake effect news and it sure sounds bad to me as this will surely cause more gun-fire in the ares mentioned. Be aleart and call 911 when possible specially if you see these groups hanging around the areas mentioned. I have a clear shot of Clarendon park being on the 25th floor of my condo. I will be looking and having my finger on the trigger of my phone......
ReplyDeleteInteresting. Seems the Capplemaniacs campaign website is still up.
ReplyDeleteI wonder if he will run again?
Actually I don't wonder. It's clear he will run.
Beware Helen! Don't ask for whom the electoral bell tolls, it tolls for thee.
Ding Dong.
Jason,
ReplyDeleteWhat do you want done? Take away only certain person rights? To hell with probable cause. Their only political power is the Constitution.
Is your "Hope and Change" for a police state? Throw out the court system? Of the 12 arrests, how many were convictions?
What is YOUR solution?!?
It's one thing to know who the bad guys are. It's a whole other thing to prove it in a court of law.
Nadmenny,
ReplyDeleteCan we start with an Alderman who sees the police as part of the solution and not part of the problem?
Can we start with an Alderman who attends CAPS meetings?
Can we start with an Alderman who doesn't defend the rights of the gangs to exist, but acknowledges that they are a blight on our community?
That "Police State" that you stated seems to work in New York. We are talking about "citizens" with numerous priors and no respect for law and order. We have laws set up to protect their rights, but more importantly we have laws set up to protect the people from them.
ReplyDeleteWhere in the Constitution does it allow these folks to make it rain on the street? Sell Dope? Assault? Murder?
The only Constitution that is protecting their behavior is the stretched out, wiped clean, then rewritten Constitution in Helen Shiller's progressive head.
I think the best bet is to find ways to get them out of the neighborhood. Are they living in their apartments legally or are some in violation of tenant policies concerning criminal records? Landlords need to step up and start taking responsibility for the trouble that their tenants are causing or enabling.
ReplyDeleteDoes "offense = arrest" or "offence = conviction"? I am confused (but that's nothing new).
ReplyDeleteIf these are convictions I wonder how many are felonies. I am not a fan of mandatory prison sentences as many gangs are formed (our lovely BPSN) or are strengthened in prison. But if we are mainly concerned with getting these people off our streets a 3-Strikes Law could be beneficial.
(I am just throwing this out there ... I have not made up my mind if I would support such an initiative, but it does seem to merit discussion.)
You make good points. BUT the are 3 wards with 9 homicides each in 2009 (16,24,37). 16 wards total with 5 or more. Do you think alderman in these wards have the same mentality as Shiller. Is it the alderman's fault?
ReplyDeleteWindy,
Your last statement talks abouts rights. And rights have nothing to do with the alderman. These rights are there for all of us. Again if we start taking away right. WHO decides what rights and from whom?
Don't get me wrong I would love to round all the gangbangers and have them disappear. But that's not how America is set-up.
PLEASE look at this map.. then look ALLLL the way at the top left hand portion of the map. You know, the place that was gerrymandered to include Shillers 'evil condo'. Please note, there are NO gangs in her part of Uptown..... now, isnt that just interesting..
ReplyDeleteChip,
ReplyDeleteThis not New York. It's Cook County the largest criminal court system in the country. I'm not defending the alderman. But how is the revolving door court system have any thing to do with the alderman. There is enough city laws on the books. There's just no room at the in. And top that with liberal judges.
The Constitution doen't allow for criminal activity. But it does establish, probable cause, search and seizure restrictions.
We need larger jails/prisons. Conservative judges. And more police on the street. With it being Cook County and Chicago that will never happen.
Sgt. Mark "Leonard" Forrest was part of a group of Our Lady Of Lourdes boys in the 60's that protected Chase Park. They were called the "Chase Park Boys" back in the day. These young upstanding gentlemen are now for the most part Chicago Police officers and should be lauded for trying to control the real thugs that exist today in their infamous old hood. Cheers Leonard. See you next time in ChiTown.
ReplyDeleteOne more thing. Looking a persons with long arrest histories. The lack repercussions breeds a mentality crime being OK. Why stop committing criminal acts when nothing happens when they get arrested.
ReplyDeleteThe police can do their job and the case is lost in the court system. Do you think the officer is happy about seeing a gangbanger back out the street after a felony arrest. Or a judge tell an officer he/she doesn't believe the officer's version of a crime.
Go to 26th and Cal or Skokie courts and watch the circus.
Nadmenny I don't disagree with a lot of your comments and your comments about Cook County are right on. But as far as Uptown, Helen enables a lot of the activity and by not speaking out against it she in fact condones it and marginalizes it. She also supports local political groups who's sole purpose is to undermine the police force's ability to do their job.
ReplyDeleteThe reason I bring up NY, is because think about the condition it was in before Giuliani revamped the police force. NY turned from a reactive police force to a proactive police force and their crime statistics plummeted. Chicago has become nothing more than a reactive police force, some due to Weis, some due to political correctness, and some due to internal corruption spoiling good programs that worked.
I guess for me and this is just my perspective but I see two kinds of people, People who live by the Constitution and other People who hide behind it.
Have we forgot "innocent until proven guilty" you may not agree but that is the sad reality, if you don't like it go to Mexico where you are guilty until proven innocent. People need to stop being so scared and cowering in front of these animals. I've lived here a long time and have never seen a bigger bunch of wusses. Everyone wants to blame it on the alderman, but where were you for the election? Inevitably, especially in this "hood" people like to have others to blame and do their dirty work.
ReplyDeleteI would prefer if the pirates that live in Oak Park would stop fleecing the Uptown neighborhood for its capital base as the Oak Park residents manage their little urban housing and education experiments in Uptown.
ReplyDeleteThe Wilson Yard TIF has created a piggy bank these outsiders can tap with the support of the Alderman.
I'm just going to stick with calling them "The Deciders" since they decide what happens without any of your input. Check out Hugh's awesome research posted on Uptown Update.
Nadmenny Millicent We need larger jails/prisons.The USA already has the highest number of its citizens in prison than any other country on Earth, we took that distinction away from Russia several years ago.
ReplyDeleteThe concentration on short term solutions (imprisonment) does not address WHY gangs persist. In my opinion, until society looks at that, we'll continue having the problem.
The prision system is a joke in the U.S. It is not a deterrent. We don't execute, we don't punish. We just house. It's the largest public housing complex in the world. If anything the bad guys compare notes and fine tune their craft.
ReplyDeleteThe court system does more to condone crime than an aldermen's (any aldermen) public out cry.
A little perspective....of the 656 homicides in Chicago since Jan 01 2008 thru May 27 2009...3 were in the 46th ward. And none this year.
Chip,
I agree with most of your posts as well. Check my blog and you see which way I lean.
Nadmenny, I agree that compared to other parts of Chicago, Uptown is good. But how many homicides should we be satisfied with? How many gang shootings should be tolerated?
ReplyDeleteI have the highest esteem for the cops, and do everything I can to help you guys... call 911, leave my name, sign complaints, show up in court, etc. I believe that the cops and citizenry, working together, make a huge difference in the way the neighborhood runs.
I won't be happy until the number of gang shootings and homicides in the 46th ward are zero. I don't care how Uptown compares to Edison Park, or Englewood, or Mount Greenwood. This is my home, and I want zero tolerance.
Create a more aware and activist citzenry, elect an alderman who's tough on crime, and see the numbers plummet. Throw in a mayor who cares about restocking the number of coppers, and we're golden.
Windy,
ReplyDeleteYour last statement talks abouts rights. And rights have nothing to do with the alderman. These rights are there for all of us. Again if we start taking away right. WHO decides what rights and from whom?
Nobody has the right to terrorize their neighbors. Your rights end where mine begin. When the group I'm associated with begins to shot at each other and send bullets through my neighbors windows, I've lost my rights to associate. These people are nothing more than urban terrorists and should be sent to their own private little Guantanamo. Personally, I think membership in the Latin Kings should be a crime in and of itself.
i disagree with the often-repeated logic that is expressed on this blog that the answer to the crime problem is to lock people up for longer periods of time and to attempt to move people who commit crimes out of the negihborhood. the u.s. has the HIGHEST per capita incarceration rate in the WORLD! and we have a far higher rate of crime and violence (both domestic and international) than other "industrialized" countries.
ReplyDeletei know that people want immediate solutions to the problems of crime in the neighborhood (and for some, property values not climbing as quickly as investors in property would like) but reducing crime and violence is a process that takes time and requires us to look at the roots of crime and violence. and to those who will write this off as wacko leftist talk, sorry, but that process requires us to look at the economic and political factors that lead people to commit crimes and violence. locking up people at such a high rate does not seem to be solving the problem, can we agree on that?
can we agree, in fact, that locking up a lot of people (usually low-income people) for a long time for simply selling or possessing drugs can do more harm that good?
and that the "war on drugs" (which many people on this blog seem to favor) with it's emphasis on arrests, incarceration and drug supply reduction over treatment and demand reduction is not an effective policy of preventing or reducing drug use?
"windycityeagle,"
i think you're simplifying the matter a bit talking about terrorists and gitmo. the truth is that there are people around the world who feel the same way about members of the u.s. military as you feel about the Latin Kings, and for similar reasons. i don't agree with either logic, but it's an example of how these issues, which are emotional ones, can quickly lead to oversimplification.
peace.
"The War on Drugs" is stupid and counterproductive as was prohibition of alcohol. Hell, Obama's new drug czar, former Seattle police chief, refuses to even use the phrase "War on Drugs".
ReplyDeleteNow legalizing some drugs will cause other problems, but those problems will likely be less harmful than "the drug war".
As for prisons we have far too many people in jail in this country. Change drug policies and that will change somewhat.
Jails and punishment have a legitimate purpose, but we likely need to focus our resources on the violent offenders and find shorter term alternatives to the non violent.
If some dumbass 16 year old is burglarizing garages do we need to put him in jail for five years? Six months in some work camp in a downstate State Park would likely be enough.
Most criminals "age out" of serious crime as they get older. One exception being our elected officials.
Does anyone know what has been going on with the gangs between Ashland and Glenwood on Winnemac? We have had the cops her multiple times and several instances of individuals being held at gunpoint by the police. I was told we have a gang of C20s (which I have no clue what that means)at the corner of Winnemac and Ashland. However I don't see this on the map. Any information would be helpful!
ReplyDeleteI would suggest you call the 20th District Community Policing office to get accurate information. I don't have the direct line but the district number is 312.742.8028 and they can connect you to the CAPS office.
ReplyDeleteThat stretch of Winnemac also stradles two beats so you may want to start attending one or both of these beat meetings to stay up to date. 2033 (east of Clark) meets at the Bezazian Library on Ainslie.
Can't help you out withe the C20's but I love the B52's!
I think everyone needs a "HOPE" hug
ReplyDeleterondurham,
ReplyDeleteAre you honestly comparing the Latin Kings to the brave men and women of our military? I think that is the definition of whacko leftist right there.
Second, people around the world dislike our military personnel as a proxy for problems they don't understand. Time and again they get screwed by their own governments, but they find it better to blame the United States then to look at themselves.
Despite this, our brave men and women in uniform do their jobs to protect everyone(even people such as yourself who hate them).
The Latin Kings on the other hand use terror, by design, to inflict fear in the neighborhood. They want you to fear them. I'm arguing that they should go to prison and/or be removed from the neighborhood because of the fear that they cause. That or they should shack up with Ron and his communist pal Helen.
This is not a question of the drug war. This a question of gangs and the terror that they cause. A guy smoking up in his house doesn't bother me. A guy firing his gun randomly on streets that my kids like to play on does.
THATS THE DIFFERENCE RON. These scumbags will fire weapons and they don't care if my KIDS LIVE OR DIE. Please, find a way to defend the poor little gangbangers who don't care about killing children.
I wish they had the draft like they use to and ship all of them to fight in the middle east. They could do all the shooting they would want to and for a good cause instead of a drug one.
ReplyDeleteI think it's relatively well accepted the concentrationg poverty, underemployment and gangs is a very bad idea. Peter and Helen missed the memo. Their incredibly "bright" idea is to add poverty to an already blighted area. (It had to be blighted by definition to be TIF eligible.)
ReplyDeleteWCE: Are you honestly comparing the Latin Kings to the brave men and women of our military? I think that is the definition of whacko leftist right there. wiki Abu Ghraib. No proxy's involved there, just our boys. One event like that involving a small number of our men and women in uniform has a greater effect than can be easily quantified. If you asked an Iraqi prisoner if they would rather have US Military guards at their site or the Latin Kings you might not want to know the answer.
ReplyDeleteAlso, it is hard to seperate the guy smoking in his apartment from the action of the gangs. They are not disconnected (as much as I would like them to be). For me this is the best reason to legalize and tax the hell out of some (but not all) drugs. Legalized (medical) marijuana with a 20% tax could be a steo forward in solving our state's budget crisis (10.5 Billion according to HR Greg Harris this morning.) But I digress....carry on........
i know that people want immediate solutions to the problems of crime in the neighborhood (and for some, property values not climbing as quickly as investors in property would like) but reducing crime and violence is a process that takes time and requires us to look at the roots of crime and violence. and to those who will write this off as wacko leftist talk, sorry, but that process requires us to look at the economic and political factors that lead people to commit crimes and violence. locking up people at such a high rate does not seem to be solving the problem, can we agree on that? -Ron
ReplyDeleteRon, you don't believe in the merits of capitalism and you have some strong anarchist leanings, so yes, you are a bit of a leftist here.
The prison system is lousy and often times makes it worse on others. Concentrated poverty (which you support) also puts a whole segment of the population at a disadvantage too.
In the meantime, we ordinary residents, all rich, poor, and in-between, have to deal with people like Charmaine Boone who has been arrested 384 times for various misdemeanors and felonies, the last one where she knocked down an elderly woman and robbed her at knifepoint. During a CAPS meeting, I recall one of your Catholic Worker roommates arguing with a cop about residents attending court advocacy to help out her latest victim.
I'm all for getting the systemic causes of crime addressed. I have very little power over that. You believe the work you do contributes but the way you alienate people probably hurts your cause more than helps it.
In the meantime, I'm going to focus on where I do have the most power: CAPS and getting a new alderman in place.
I'd love to hear the story about the Catholic Worker arguing with the cop over the court advocacy program.
ReplyDelete"holey moley",
ReplyDeletea couple things:
"Ron, you don't believe in the merits of capitalism and you have some strong anarchist leanings, so yes, you are a bit of a leftist here."
sure, but that doesn't make what i'm saying competely untrue orof no merit.
"You believe the work you do contributes but the way you alienate people probably hurts your cause more than helps it."
i'm not the one writing certain groups of people off and saying that they should all be put in jail. others on this blog are doing that. when you have a problem with the behavior of people, or the suspected behavior of people, it's not always productive to try to ship them off somewhere. and it's certainly not possible. so by advocating that, one definitely alienates a whole bunch of people!
just talk to young people, especially young people of color, growing up in Chicago. you don't think they feel alienated by policies that criminlaize them? and i'm not just talking about young people involved in gangs, i'm talking about ordinary young people who constantly feel targetted by the police and their "social superiors" (like many on this blog) who never want to listen to them but always wanna be listened to. and the CAPS program that you think is the best approach to the problem contributes to the focus on police as the primary answer and the avoidance of talking about real issues that could lead to a drop in crime and violence. even the cops know that CAPS in Uptown is an attempt to merely placate a certain group of people in the neighborhood.
sadly, many of these young people feel targetted by some of their peers too, and that's no better than being targetted by the cops. but to think that CAPS is the solution to this problem is a mistake. i know that there is a reluctance to look at the larger social forces at play and that there is a tendency to focus on short-sighted, myopic and mostly ineffective policies of reducing crime. if that's the way y'all wanna proceed, go for it. but don't expect many results, and definitely expect to isolate and alienate a lot of people.
There's a huge difference, one I think lost on Ron and other Wilson Yard apologists, between "investors" in the community and real estate speculators. Investing implies a long term commitment. An investor sees value both long and short term and commits. We're not looking for a fast buck but we certainly don't want to lose our investment. I want the neighborhood become better, not worse, because I live here. I'd like to spend my money in the neighborhood. I'd like my RE tax dollars to be spent on schools and other services as opposed to a politally connected (suburban)millionaire.
ReplyDeleteI have little sympathy myself for the speculaters who expected to gett rich quick.
Ron, a question:
ReplyDeletewhen your (non)Catholic (non)Worker House was broken into a few weeks ago, and the police were called and asked to "Hurry up!" getting there, what did you advocate them doing with your intruder?
Did you expect the police to take him/her away from you? Or have a peace-out session and sing Kumbaya and learn to live together?
People who can't deal with other people in society need to learn to do so. Being removed from that society while they learn is to protect society from them and their anti-social behavior. Should they learn to behave in that society, they can return to it. Should they not, they lose that right.
Or is your break-in somehow different from society at large?
i think you miss my point "tygerkub"
ReplyDeletei'm not saying that there is no need for the police. what i am saying is that when it comes to developing policy on how to reduce crime and violence, the prison system and the police state should not be the only, or even primary, way we deal with those problems. i agree that we need police and am not opposed to police.
there is a huge weakness in your argument:
"People who can't deal with other people in society need to learn to do so. Being removed from that society while they learn is to protect society from them and their anti-social behavior. Should they learn to behave in that society, they can return to it."
is that what you think prison is, a place to learn how to behavie in society? and then you go home? read some about the history of prisons. originally they were intended to rehabilitate people, but that model has been done away with a long, long time ago.
and "tygerkub", i can handle you trying to get a rise out of me while hiding behind a fake name, but your reasoning is a little harder to excuse.
"i'm not saying that there is no need for the police. what i am saying is that when it comes to developing policy on how to reduce crime and violence, the prison system and the police state should not be the only, or even primary, way we deal with those problems. i agree that we need police and am not opposed to police." -Ron
ReplyDeleteThus the real crux of the matter. CAPS is not a think tank to create policies to address the root of crime. It's about neighbors coming together from all walks of life who want a safer place for them and their children. That includes poor people. They also appreciate safety.
If you want to create policy, go for it by running for a state or federal office, but don't tell people you're an anarchist. Then again, they'll quickly figure that out. I did way before you ever admitted it.
On a local level, if you want to address the root of a lot of crime in this neighborhood, fight against concentrated poverty. I'm tired of all the gangbanging, pimping, and prostituting that occurs day in and day out in this neighborhood. I'm sure poor people don't like it either.
"Police State".???
ReplyDeleteSorry Ronbo, but if this was a "Police State" you wouldn't be posting here.
What do police states do with dissenters?
If the dissenters are lucky they get lined up against a wall and shot. If they are unlucky they end up in a gulag or camp.
Since you are posting here on this board and have done time protesting various governmental policies I would suggest that this is not a "police state".
By the way thanks for not answering the question about how you and the rest of your "Berrigan Brigade" reacted when the cops had to respond to your house for a break in.
Your non answer is very loud.
Gosh Ron, you're a member of Cop Watch and you've been witnessed filming the police as they arrest gangbangers for drug dealing. I wonder if you filmed the police when they came over to your home to stop the burglary in progress?
ReplyDeleteWhile the burglary was happening, were you the one who called 911 the second time and asked them to hurry up?
actually i wasn't around when this incident happened or when the police had someone detained, but if someone had wanted to film the police in an effort to prevent them from violating someone's rights, i would not have had a problem with that at all.
ReplyDeleteand once again, if someone feels that they are threatened and need help, i have no problem with them calling the police. i am glad that the police are available for situations like that. i have called the police at times in my life for such incidents.
ReplyDeletehowever, i think that oftentimes there is an over-reliance on the criminal justice system and the police to solve social problems.
and i also know that there is a long history in Chicago and elsewhere of police violating people's rights, harassing people and behaving in ways that actually foment violence and pit different groups of people against each other (i.e. gangs). not all cops engage in this bahavior but enough do to warrant people observing and monitoring the police when they can. and that is the point of copwatch.
so if you call the police and see copwatch arrive to monitor the police; we do so not as a protest against you or the police. it is simply an attempt to hold public employess accountable to people in the community. sadly, the cpd has shown time and again that it does not do a good job of policing itself. and mayor daley certainly doesn't do a good job of that either.
Ron finally I agree with you on something. Mayor Daley does not do a very good job indeed.
ReplyDelete"however, i think that oftentimes there is an over-reliance on the criminal justice system and the police to solve social problems." Ron
ReplyDeleteRon, the problem is that you and your non-Catholic Catholic Workers come to CAPS with the intentions of disrupting the process of neighbors working together to stop crime. That Catholic Worker roommate of yours arguing with the police about picking on the woman who had 384 prior arrests was just another example of the reputation your group has deservedly earned.
Yes, CAPS does not solve the root causes of crime. However, CAPS is not the place to have your philosophical discussions. What you want falls outside the realm of community residents working together.
However, if you really want to get to some of the root causes of crime, it's interesting that you fall in line with promoting concentrated poverty rather than eliminating it. You judge condo owners for only looking out for their property values. The right to feel safe be damned. The right for poor people to feel safe is damned as well. It doesn't support your line of thinking so you just toss it.
So if you complain about the reputation you have on this board, I won't feel sorry for you. You earned it all on your own.
I know it's a little late but, I have to say Holy Moley writes great comments.
ReplyDeleteAgain every justs needs a "HOPE HUG"