Tuesday, February 7, 2012

Redeye: What's In Store For CTA's Red and Purple?

Interesting article on ideas the CTA is floating for the Red and Purple lines, two of which include Uptown:
  • "The CTA is working on an idea that would turn the Wilson stop into a transfer station between Red and Purple lines. A public meeting for that proposal, which would rely on federal funding announced last year, is slated for the summer."
  • "The options it is considering -- 5 stations would close: The CTA would shutter the Foster and South Boulevard stops on the Purple Line and the Jarvis, Thorndale and Lawrence stops on the Red Line."
If you feel strongly about these ideas, pro or con, let the CTA know.  Sounding off here might be satisfying, but if you don't talk directly to the CTA, it will do no good.  Here's how:
UU Note: Ald. Cappleman has said that the Wilson station will probably be closed during part of its overhaul, which will take place 2012 through 2014. If the Lawrence stop is shuttered before the Wilson station is reconstructed, that might mean no stops between Sheridan (4000 N) and Argyle (5000 N) at some points during Wilson construction.  Could the CTA be that short-sighted?  Who knows.


  1. Close the Lawrence stop? Great, just what the neighborhood needs.. when thousands leave the Aragon and the Riviera, and hopefully the Uptown Theatre someday...lets have all the drunks stumble through our residential area of Truman Square at 2am ...now wont that be fun! Idiots...

  2. I think it's OK to close down Lawrence. I mean Argyle is just a couple blocks north of Lawrence, then Wilson is 3 minute walk from Lawrence. Doesn't make sense to have Lawrence so close in between. I think closing down Lawrence will save a lot of money and CTA can focus more on improving Argyle and Wilson instead!

  3. I always wondered why there was not any Purple line transfers until you got to Belmont. Seems like there should be more than one North of Fullerton.

    Good to see the CTA planning ahead. Now is the time to include future plans with the rehab currently being discussed for the Wilson station.

  4. In fairness, you can stand at the south end of the Lawrence platform and practically spit on the north end of Wilson. (Not that I suggest you try.) It's a little silly. If I were king of the Red Line, Lawrence would stay--the stops would be Montrose with a north exit at Wilson, Lawrence, Foster with a south exit on Argyle, Bryn Mawr. But I'm willing to see what the CTA has up its sleeve.

  5. Keep Lawrence open during the Wilson rehab and then close it. I don't think it is big deal to have people walk 2 blocks to the music venues. Think the Metro to the Addison stop. The foot traffic may even be beneficial to local businesses that would have more people walking by on concert nights.

    People that regularly use the Lawrence stop can easily walk to Wilson or Argyle. Sacrifices need to be made to get the CTA in the right direction.

  6. A sneak-peek of the exhibit boards is available at the link below.

    Seeing the rail map without Lawrence is kind of stark, please don't let it happen..


    Save the Majestic!


  7. I'm not sure I understand why Foster is bolded in the story--implies that it in Uptown rather than in Evanston. Is there something special about this stop in relation to Uptowners that I don't know about?

  8. It looks like there would be an ainslie entrance added along with the improved argyle stop, might help mitigate the lawrence loss.

  9. The Foster stop they mention on the Purple Line is in Evanston. There is no Foster stop in Chicago. The closest stop to Foster Ave is the Berwyn CTA stop.

  10. The things this city does to screw the residents of it surely makes my face glow red and purple with each bad decision they make.

  11. I have heard of several organizations ringing alarm bells regarding station closures. These are most likely unfounded, as the consolidation of stations are an improvement.

    Looking at the presentation boards, the Modernization plan with consolidation of stations will improve effeciency while affecting just a few riders.

    -The consolidation of the Jarvis station with the Howard station will put an entrance at Rogers, 2 blocks from the current station.

    -The consolidation of the Granville station with the Thorndale station will put an entrance at Glenlake, 1 block from the current station.

    -The consolidation of the Lawrence station with the Argyle station will put an entrance at Ainsle, 1 block from the current station.

    With this plan, the closing of Jarvis will add no more than 2 blocks to those that board there. The closure of Thorndale & Lawrence will add no more than 1 block to those that board there. The best way to understand what I am describing is to look at the "How Station Consolidation Can Increase Efficiency" slide in the presentation boards.

  12. Is it possible that the option of closing any stations is old news? This has been discussed before (last fall?) and then seemed to go away because the amount of feedback the CTA received. The article even states that a new options is "No stations would close, extensive face-lift: This is the new option the CTA presented Monday, based on rider feedback." This was just reported as well and they were talking about doing work to the stations - including Lawrence (just not Berwyn). Sounds like the CTA might be backing off of station closings - or so I would hope.

    For those of you advocating that Lawrence should close, that's a little short sighted, not only because that area is the "entertainment district" and needs convenient public transportation (come to that stop on the evening of a concert) but also because it would make more sense to build a new station at Montrose to replace Wilson (keep the Wilson building of course and rehab for retail). But, I digress.

    My guess is any of us would mourn the loss of the station closest to our homes, so it may be best to band together as a neighborhood and support keeping all the Uptown stations open.

  13. The Lawrence stop is so close to Wilson & Argyle that I'd support closing it if it meant nicer stops at Wilson & Argyle. I'd hate to see what would happen to that strip along Broadway & Lawrence, though (Crew, Annoyance, Fat Cat).

  14. Agreed with Ross, these changes are very necessary. The amount of stops right now from Wilson northward, is preposterous.

  15. Guys, the link that Jeffrey provided says that the Wilson improvements will be COMPLETED before this project gets off the ground.
    Source: "What's new with the RPM?" page, bottom

  16. So, I am one of the folks that would lose my "closest" red line stop at Lawrence... but I'm not sad.

    If you read through the presentation, you'll see that the elimination of the Lawrence stop is not really the end of the world - consolidation allows for 10 (instead of 8) cars until Howard - think of all the extra space!!! In addition to being able to transfer to the purple line, it would allow for longer platforms, which would essentially stretch from one street to the next (i.e.; exits at Wilson and Leland). All things considered, adding 25% more space for people and shaving 10 minutes off the trip is worth a block of walking... and an exit on Leland could be just what Broadway needs to officially connect our extremely popular new Target to the Entertainment District... instead of the creepy stretch that exists today.

  17. @ Kevin T.

    Foster av. is highlighted because there would be an exit at foster from the Berwyn stop.

    This is the breakdown on time savings for the redline from Howard to Belmont:

    Existing- 25.5 minutes

    Without station consolidation- 19 min.

    With station consolidation- 16.5 min.

    There is still a chance Lawrence could be saved. The reps at the meeting said which stations are closed can still be modified.

    The difference between Lawrence and Thorndale/Jarvis stops is:

    -Crowd surges post concert, especially the Aragon, will send hundreds of patrons into the side streets at late night hours.

    -The proposed Uptown Music District will be negatively affected.

    -We have a higher density of disabled and elderly passengers and the extra distance will affect them negatively.

    Unlike the other two stops Lawrence is served by a 24 hour busline (#81)..rerouting it is not practical or desirable.

    There are surely others...that is all.....head spinning from all of those exhibit boards tonight....

  18. When I used to live in Uptown, it was during the Belmont andFullerton reconstruction. I routinely though about how Sheridan could be reconstructed. There's not enough room to install an elevator on a platform, especially not one on each. There's a high density around the station of populated structures. The solution I thought of was to combine the two island platforms into one which would be wide enough for ADA acessibility. The issue is that Sheridan is used as a temporary transfer station on days of Cubs games.

    If Wilson was returned to it's transfer duties, then the Sheridan platforms could be rebuilt. As for Lawrence closure, I do like the idea that the CTA doesn't seem to think of of moving Wilson to Montrose and keeping Lawrence open. Here's a bold question, does a rebuilt Wilson station need to remain at Wilson? If the inside is going to be gutted anyways, why not renovate the building for retail again and build a nice,new station at Montrose?

  19. What if Lawrence got a light upgrade, and only became an express stop or opened on concert nights, weekends? Seems important for those events, but also seems most disposable to many who have commented. Remember one less stop will also be a quicker ride (hopefully)

  20. Keep Wilson Open because it has a lot of space and I'm sure CTA will make the Ramp longer and the stairs will lead to Lawrence if they close the Lawrence stop.

  21. The idea of moving the Wilson stop to Montrose makes no sense at all. Truman College is where it is because there is an El stop there. Truman College gets a LOT a riders.

    The CTA is proposing to build an entrance/exit at Sunnyside which would serve Truman and Taget much better and close the gap a bit.

    At this time the Sunnyside entry is the only one in grey on the "with consolidation" proposal. So if you think it should happen kindly add that to the feedback at RPM.

    6c1a..... has made an interesting suggestion as a compromise. It would be a long extension and not cheap if an elevator is involved. But it would be less expensive the widening the Lawrence Station as proposed in the "without consolidation" proposal. That compromise would mean the "81" bus wouldn't need to be re-routed. There are too many buselines on Wilson already and Argyle is not a good bus route.

    Uptown is a more densely populated neighborhood then the areas around the other two stations (Jarvis/Thorndale) even without the theaters and UMD in the works.

    A very strong argument can be made to keep the station open but it will have to be made very assertively and with researched facts.

  22. Jeffrey, you make a good point about Truman College.

    As far as Lawrence goes, let's consider the Modernization Without Consolidation (a) versus Modernization (b) plans and the actual effect they would have on our commutes. In (a), there are entrances at 4600, 4800, and 5000 N. In (b), there are entrances at 4600, 4900, and 5000. So if you live on the 4700 block or on the southern half of the 4800 block, (b) adds at most one block to your walk. If you don't, it has no effect. That's pretty marginal.

    If there is a logical argument to be made for keeping Lawrence open while keeping Wilson and Argyle where they are--lengthening the commute for everyone north of 4850 and costing additional money--it's going to have to lean pretty heavily on the unwillingness of some people to walk to the businesses and venues on Lawrence.

    So some things to look at are: did the State Street subway stop rejiggering hurt the businesses on Washington? Did adding an entrance to Harrison on Polk help the businesses on the south end of Printer's Row? Etc. I doubt it's going to be a big effect, but I could be wrong.

    Anyway, I'm actually pretty happy with either Modernization option. A Clark Junction flyover is on the table for real, which is fantastic, and the four options presented by the CTA this time around are orders of magnitude more sensible than the previous ones.

  23. I suggest closing the Argyle stop. Besides being a disgusting looking street, it has no bus route on the street, like Foster, Lawrence and Wilson. The latter three stops have many bus riders transfering to the Redline,

  24. I like brianbobcat and Brian's ideas--close Argyle, reconstruct the Lawrence stop to connect with the Lawrence bus and to serve the Uptown Entertainment District, construct a REPLACEMENT station for Wilson--at MONTROSE. The Montrose bus wouldn't have to have the crazy re-route, the Wilson Express buses could be re-routed along Clark to Montrose to avoid the gang wars on Wilson, the Broadway bus would still be close enough for transfers, Target and Aldi can be reached easier...and the architecture that so many people love about the old Wilson station house would be preserved for retail use (and still accessible to the new Montrose station). I don't think that people realize that "reconstructing" the existing Wilson station will result in it being turned into another version of the Belmont and Fullerton stations--utilitarian concrete and steel. Furthermore, if that sort of "reconstruction" happens, the Wilson station WILL be closed for the entire period of construction--who wants to walk all the way down to Sheridan?

    And Jeffrey, as much as you and I can agree on some things, I disagree with you about the Red Line's utility to Truman College--it wasn't until they started to build the new McKeon Memorial Parking Deck (and Unused "We Did it Just to Get the Silver LEED Certification" Bicycle Storage Facility) that Truman started to really use the Red Line. Now that they have, what, one-thousand-one-hundred-forty-odd parking spaces and dedicated security to show people where to park in it...they can use the parking deck. And if they DO have some people who want to use the Red Line, they are welcome to board and debark at a new Montrose station and walk two blocks around their parking structure and fences the way that they have neighborhood residents doing now to get to the Wilson station! (Maybe they'd figure out how to make the McKeon Building a little more accessible and user-friendly if they have their own students and staff complaining about how difficult it is to get past it.)

    So let's save tax dollars on construction, re-purpose the existing Wilson station for something good, and do something for our neighborhood...FOR ONCE.

  25. @ Bear

    That parking lot has issues but is another matter. Truman students using the Redline, many do and always have, should not have to walk farther. That would encourage more to drive which is bad in a number of ways.

    Compare and contrast:

    Wilson and Broadway is the intersection of 2 commercial streets.

    Montrose is not a commercial street, and the tracks are a block off of Broadway 36 bus, bad connection.

    The 145 and 146 buses run on Wilson, rerouting them to Montrose would not provide any advantage.

    There is no point in making the Gerber building a French Market as proposed if it will not remain a nexus. The facade will be preserved, it won't look like Fullerton. Speaking of Fullerton/Belmont some of those acoustical panels are already deteriorating badly and trash is collecting in all kinds of strange places

    An exit at Sunnyside would serve the Target crowd and provide easier access for Sunnyside mall residents. There needs to be a better tie-in between the future Wilson station and the south-end of the Truman campus.

    There will be community hearings this summer on the Wilson design and that is the time to speak-up for Sunnyside mall. Wilson is on the fast track.


    It will be interesting to see how they plan to change the 2 90 degree turns at Sheridan into a soft S-curve. I'm thinking maybe a couple of those two-flats on south-side of Irving, the single-story store north of the station on Sheridan with the store and mexican rest.. And the single-story building on the NE corner of Sheridan/Dakin...the one with the tavern.

    Its difficult to say for sure, maybe even Byron's Hot Dogs which was the place to go back in the day. Mediocre as of late.....

    One thing for sure the wrecking ball would have to swing.

    Straightening out the track was on both modernization proposals just like the Clark St.flyover (cool idea!) so it looks like they have settled on doing it.

  26. "Truman students using the Redline, many do and always have, should not have to walk farther."

    Gimme a break! Walk 1 block further south to Sunnyside? The poor things...

  27. A Montrose Station? What a stupid idea... a full quarter of its radius is a CEMETERY for God's sake... I have never understood this arguement and the obsessive requests for a Montrose station..it is a dumb idea, there is no concentration of population OR business around it and would be a 100% waste of money aside for the same 6 folks that constantly harp on it on here... geesh, look at the greater good for a change.. An El stop next to a cemetery...that is insane.

  28. Really? Modify the "S-curve" on the Sheridan line? Hmmm...wonder if the folks at St. Mary's Church had some "input" on this.

    Really, nothing like hearing the choir singing a hymn on a Sunday morning with "accompaniment" from your local public transit system!

  29. the montrose station idea is a non-starter only kept alive by a small hanful of the people who it would benefit.

  30. Now the Montrose station idea may be a non starter, I don't claim to know, but it is hardly being put forward by only a small group of people.

    Former CTA President Ron Huberman expressed support for the idea at one point. He lived in Uptown for years before moving to Ravenwood with his hubby and baby. Damn, traitor!

    Here are some good reasons to move the station to Montrose.

    1. It would annoy Uptown Superhero.

    2. See number one

    3. It spaces out the stations more appropriately and allows the Montrose bus to run down Montrose. What a concept.

    4. Broadway and Wilson is likely to remain "problematic" for years. People will be more comfortable getting off the train at Montrose than at Wilson. Plus the relative lack of much retail at that exact location makes loitering much less likely.

    5. It would make the Maryville site easier to redevelop into a Jeanne Gang designed IrishPirate supertower(s) with a reasonable 999 units.

    6. The platform could run from Montrose to Sunnyside and open near the Target/Aldi/Truman Parking entrances.

    7. We could put up some artwork and allow Jeffrey Littleton to manage it. That might keep him off this blog a bit which would bring great joy to many. Not as much joy as if I arrested by the feds for flying in meth from Mexico and disappeared from the hood and this blog for a decade or more. Ain't gonna happen. I fly the meth in from Canada. It's hidden by hockey pucks and gravy and the silly feds have no idea.

    8. I will leave this open for comments from some of the brighter and more enlightened members of the Uptown community who realize the genius of moving the station to Montrose.

  31. Here is a tasty link from the Reader regarding the CTA and possible changes.


    I refuse to hyperlink because the idea of Graceland cemetery and the new IrishPirate Montrose CTA stop has discombobulated my cerebellum.

  32. IP -1

    The Montrose stop has never been on the table in any serious way. It is not even being considered for consideration.

    What are the benefits? Montrose bus blows past the cemetery, instead of the Wilson Ave. business district and Truman College. Brilliant!

    So what if it means the two downtown buselines on Wilson will have to be re-routed to connect with the redline, the cemetery needs the service.

    And the 36 bus on Broadway?

    If Huberman really said that it would go a long way to explain his short tenure.

    Montrose bus links up with the Blue Line and Truman. What is up with the dismissive attitudes toward Truman students anyway?

    If people have a problem with the garage, TIF's and all that fine. But from a transportation standpoint they do matter.

    Either way it is a moot point...not happening.

    Since the Entrance/Exit at Sunnyside is NOT a sure thing wouldn't it be wise to focus on that.

    If there is a Sunnyside access will it just be a turnstile like on Wilson now?

    How would it be configured and tied into the Truman campus and by extension the Sunnyside Mall area?

    What kind of enhancements?

    Important questions...timely even.

  33. Jefflo,

    I'm sure you know what's on the table because I picture you standing over a paper mache model of Uptown on a large table in your abode.

    Sorta an Uptown version of Bill Murray in "Caddyshack". I can just see you knocking Byrons hot dog stand over as you study the possibilities of fixing the Sheridan "S" curve. "GoodBYE, Byrons......te he he."

    "Here's the Jeffrey Littleton Uptown Arts Center at the former Maryville site. Woo hoo!"

    You're an amazing guy. You understand highrise construction techniques above and below the ground. You once worked on a loading dock so you're an expert on loading docks and traffic patterns. You're a self proclaimed expert on the arts and arts districts. Man, you're Uptown's version of a renaissance man.

    Moreover, you're now an expert on the CTA and its northside plans. I get tired just typing all that.

    Huberman left the CTA under duress. Daley wanted him to take over the schools. Huberman resisted, but ultimately went. I don't blame him for being reluctant. The problems at the CTA are easy compared to trying to deal with the issues of public schools in this city.

    I'm happy though that you understand the problems at the CTA better than the former CTA President. Make sure you contact Forrest Claypool. I'm sure he could find a position for you as "renaissance man".

    As for the reasons for moving the station to Montrose I outlined them earlier.

    I do agree though that the CTA is extremely unlikely to move the station. Easier to rebuild than to face the opposition of moving or closing a station.

    The damn city can't even get a city sticker produced without a controversy.

  34. I went to the open house on Tuesday specifically to learn what was being considered for the Sheridan stop. I thought it was strange that on the various plan maps the stop name was Sheridan on some maps and Irving Park on others.

    This is what I learned:

    Due to the narrowness of the Sheridan platform the station cannot be made handicapped accessible. Therefore, all renovation/modernization plans currently under consideration include a new station.

    Under the Basic Rehabilitation with Transfer Stations option Sheridan will be replaced with a new Irving Park stop. It would be located north of Irving behind the residential buildings on the west side of Kenmore. The primary station entrance would be on Irving and the secondary entrance (which is required by law) would be on Kenmore between Irving and Buena. There is an empty lot on the block that they have identified as the potential location.

    Under both Modernization options (with and without station consolidation) the plan is to rework the track to soften the curves to 45% from the current 90% turns and build a new station in the same general area as the current stop with the primary entrance on Irving and the secondary entrance at Sheridan and Dakin. This plan would require significantly more land

    I think the plan to move the station to the north side of Irving is a terrible one. I don't like the idea of having a station entrance/exit on a residential side street. If I lived on that block I would campaign vigorously against this.

    Would love to hear others thoughts on these options.

  35. Irishpirate

    Dude...this is not expert level stuff here. I know you are a fastidious consumer of the local media but.....

    I have no idea what your talking about this soap opera of Huberman/Daley/ save the schools...etc. but it sounds funny. The jefflo thing don't even make sense, I don't get it....jus sayin'.

    I do a lot of sketches of Uptown but no grand scheme man, no paper sculpture town.

    Honestly I hope Byrons don't get bulldozed...maybe they will make a comeback one day. They used to be real good, best in town.

    I could go over the facts again about moving a station from the intersection of two business corridors. And why moving it to the intersection of a non-commercial street and an alleyway, across from the backside of a cemetery is illogical if not Huberman-like.

    But I don't wanna get all Leonardo DV Renaissance on ya.....

    Somehow you and Huberman believe in the mysterious power of the equidistant above all else...like traffic patterns, system connections, and density.

    Cemetery residents have been known to vote in Chi-town but riding the El not so much.

    It is a self-evidently stupid idea, and that is why you resort to your Don Rickles routine. Its all cool...do your thing it don't bug me.

    Your just jealous because I have talent and you don't.

  36. Jeff,

    you are the Michelangelo of Mercy Housing. Hopefully, one day you'll leave Mercy Housing and let the larger world partake of your talent.

    I'll leave it at that. Otherwise I suspect Caring Neigbor, being the decent moderator she is, would not post my comment.

    As for moving the Sheridan stop to the northside of Irving, therefore making it the Irving Park stop, that's an interesting idea. They wouldn't even have to use the vacant lot on Kenmore. That portion of Challenger Park is an underused parking lot that really only serves the Cubs on game days.

    Just eliminate the parking lot and use it for both entrances. Better yet run the train at ground level to Montrose along the cemetery wall and eliminate the elevated structure on that stretch of Kenmore.

    Challenger Park and Bark would disappear, but that's a small tradeoff for the quiet of ground level tracks. Plus a ground level structure is less expensive to maintain than an elevated structure. Just fence it off like they the western portions of the Brown Line.

  37. IP, any day that I have successfully annoyed you and your supersized ego is a good day for me. And as much as you post your commentary, veiled as amusing but obviously feeling as though you are an expert, I find it amusing you are getting on Jeffrey Littletons case for doing the same thing you do.

    I think JL is IPs doppleganger and IP doesnt like it...LOL ..Happy Friday everyone!

  38. Well, I *could* say that a Maryville Arts Center is a stupid, non-starter idea. I *could* say that the whole "Occupy" movement is stupid and naive, and that its adherents are lazy communists who display a total lack of understanding of economics. But I won't say those things--or at least, by mentioning those things, I underline that I don't believe those things.

    For as much as our friend IP stirs things up and zings people (which is an art unto itself), no one can say that he fails to make people think. And he does his homework before he writes something. What he wrote about moving the Wilson station to Montrose is right on target. Add what he and Jeff spoke about with an entrance to the Montrose stop at Sunnyside--next to Target and Aldi (and Truman), and it still allows for VERY easy access to Wilson.

    So with a Montrose stations, "a full quarter of its radius is a CEMETERY". B.F.D. I lost track several years ago of the number of people who won't use the Wilson stop--because of the crime, because of the panhandlers, because of the condition of the station. They *would* use a Montrose stop that lets them avoid those problems--an increase in ridership without losing existing riders. There are other people south of Montrose and east of North Sheridan would who very likely ditch their cars and the slow CTA buses to use a Montrose Red Line stop who won't use a Wilson stop they feel is too distant or too dangerous. There are yet others who live west of Clark who might like the option of taking the Red Line from a Montrose stop, by using a direct Montrose bus connection or biking or walking--who, again, won't use an out-of-the-way and dangerous Wilson stop. So really, it doesn't matter if Graceland Cemetery is one-quarter of the radius--the same people who use the Wilson stop now will continue using a Montrose stop--no loss in ridership--and a Montrose stop will tap into new or adjusted ridership currently not served by the Red Line--an INCREASE in ridership--not to mention an increase in ridership by people who now will absolutely not use the Wilson stop under any circumstances. My guess is that the traffic in and out of the Montrose stop would increase by anywhere from 20% to 35%, and that doesn't count the customers who would use the stop to shop at Target.

    The idea is far from stupid, and it would save tax dollars on construction costs, save an historic structure to re-purpose it for business, and prevent the huge incovenience of shutting down station access for riders during construction.

  39. The Ursine one has summed up the reasons that the Wilson stop should be moved to Montrose very well.

    As he said there are all kinds of people who will NOT use the Wilson stop under any circumstances. You can redo the Wilson stop and some of the problems at that corner will remain. Realistically cleaning up Wilson/Broadway is a decades long process.

    Of course that's less important that Mr Superhero being able to catch the bus or train on Wilson. You'd think he'd just fly over to Montrose, but apparently he's a lazy superhero.

    Perhaps he can get together with Jefflo and borrow some of his marbles. Then he can rub the marbles between his fingers while imitating Bogart as Captain Queeg and ranting about me and the cemetery.

    As I type this I'm looking out my front window at the snow. That means I will have to shovel the sidewalk soon. I wish shoveling the BS that is posted here were as easy.

    I was thinking about the Sheridan stop moving and its implications. I think you could run the tracks at ground level to Montrose and just move the dog park a bit east.

    Perhaps after I'm done shoveling later I'll dig a tape measure out of my tool box and take some measurements. Or perhaps not.

    After all my titanic ego is such that mere measurement is beneath me. Shit, so is snow shoveling. I should have thought of that!

  40. Okay, fellas, back away from the keyboards, back away from the keyboards....

    Deep breaths.

    Three words: "Stay on topic."


  41. Inhale the good.

    Exhale the bad.




    Inhale the good.

    Exhale the bad.

  42. Running the track on the ground would create an incline.

    Like the tracks between Rockwell and Western that would create a slow zone (gravity).

    So we should create a slow zone while trying to eliminate one (Sheridan).


    So now who is and isn't doing their homework?

    And the Art Center is an awesome idea!

  43. Exhale.


    Gravity works both ways, Newton. Also I suspect building a station at ground level is significantly less expensive than building it 2.5 stories in the air. Whip out your pocket calculator and break it down for me.

    Also the maintenance costs of ground level tracks have to be significantly less than the elevated structure. Ironworkers get paid a real good buck not to mention all the CTA painters constantly repainting the structure.

    As for an incline we're talking a few stories not the rollercoaster at Great America.

    With all these gravitational forces abounding it's amazing the Red Line even manages to come out of the subway north of North Avenue.

    Now before Caring Neighbor gets mad I will stop this post and comment no more here. She kinda scares me. I picture her wearing a Nun's habit and carrying a ruler.

  44. The new structure is going to be reinforced concrete and unpainted.

    Four posts wide with longer spans. Easier on the eyes and the ears.

    There is a chance that a bike path will be installed underneath. The new style won't have the greasy/rusty rainwater problems.
    This could mean covered bike lanes running from Howard to Belmont.

    It is an exciting opportunity, the trick would be the work-arounds at stations but we are very early in the design process so it is doable.

    The Uptown Redline Rollercoaster...... sounds like fun.........:/