Taxation without representation- priceless!
Yep and he didn't know a thing about his father's illegal id operation.What a bunch of honest Alderman we have here in Chicago.
Very interesting! We should have people go talk to Shiller with video cameras! Put it on youtube!Fantastic.
That's a good idea Andy, but you'll probably find:1. Shiller isn't there or "isn't available"OR2. You'll get threatened with a baseball bat and your camera will be broken.OR3. Both 1 and 2.
I hate to point out that whatever actually happened INSIDE the office is conveniently missing from this video. It could be compared to a video showing a cop violently throwing someone to the ground "for no reason" while omitting the fact that the victim just shot four people 3 seconds before the video started. Everybody screams "police brutality." I am not defending the alderman, but I doubt if this guy was just in there to have a conversation with the alderman. I hope everybody sees that.
Munoz is known as not a very nice person.
As an aside, I love when people pull that taxation without representation line because its a historical fallacy. Our founding fathers in no uncertain terms DID NOT WANT REPRESENTATION. They sent Ben Franklin to England and basically told him that could in no way accept that. The only acceptable results was a break from England. Anyway, I digress.But I gotta go with Jason, I'm always suspicious of video that makes you imply something happened that didn't. Did this guy refuse to leave the office? I mean, at some point what do you do if someone comes into your Aldermanic office and just refuses to leave?Of course, that the fact that the 22nd Ward Alderman is kinda known to be a j-hole, this event seems right in line with his reputation.
for me the funniest thing is the huge lighted mirror right outside the door to Munoz's office - wouldn't want to leave the office with a hair out of place!
" ... whatever actually happened INSIDE the office is conveniently missing from this video."OK, but a citizen walking a ward and ringing doorbells and trying to explain tax increment financing to voters and collecting hundreds of signatures in opposition to an alderman's pet project more than adequately explains an alderman's hostility
Is there ever an excuse for an alderman to literally throw someone from their office?I can understand insulting, berating and otherwise being verbally disrespectful ...
yoIs there ever an excuse for an alderman to literally throw someone from their office?I can understand insulting, berating and otherwise being verbally disrespectful ...Would there ever be a reason for you to throw someone from your office or home?We do not know what happened in that office, and it would be bad practice to assume that it wasn't justified. I agree with previous posters, that we are only seeing one side of this issue. This man has an agenda the same way COURAJ, Shiller, FWY, et al. has.Even 10 seconds of film of what happened before that incident would go a long way in helping people decide if it was justified or not. Did he open the door and throw the guy out? Had he previously opened the door, asked the guy repeatedly to leave, and the man refused? Had the man insulted the alderman in any way to set him off?We don't know, and we probably will never know what happened in that office. I am just sad that this guy couldn't do a better job presenting his side.
Is there ever an excuse for an alderman to literally throw someone from their office?Answer: NOIf the alderman wants a citizen removed he/she should call the police.Exception: Imminent physical danger. It doesn't look like that was the case here.
"Had the man insulted the alderman in any way to set him off?"Physical violence as a result of "setting" someone off isn't acceptable. One can have sympathy for a situation I suppose, but that doesn't make it right. ESPECIALLY in the case of someone in public office. You have to have thick skin, be the bigger person, and call the police.
You would think that a pubic official regardless of what took place in the office would be tactful enough to find another way to address the issue than to be caught on tape pushing the guy out of the office. But here in Chicago it appears that many Aldermen think they are allowed to do whatever they want in their ward. Arrogance has never been so obvious to me. I hope this makes the local news.
I truly believe its time for Chicago citizens to organizearound massive TIF reform across the entire City. Oh, and let's throw in getting rid of the manipulative practice of gerrymandering, which should be renamed How-all-the-lousy-aldermen rig their votes.
What happened before the edit is not what bothers me. It is the lack of class and language Munoz used to rid himself of the problem. He is a public servant, he should show some respect for the office and raise himself up to a higher standard. Physically defending himself I have no problem with. But the language tells me more about his intelligence. Public Servants are supposed to be the best and brightest of society, this whows that Mr. Munoz is neither.
Nickname UnavailablePhysical violence as a result of "setting" someone off isn't acceptable. One can have sympathy for a situation I suppose, but that doesn't make it right.In a perfect world, you are right. The truth is though that there are very few people that can stand and let someone make accusations or threats while they wait for the police to arrive. We have no idea what went on in that room, so it is not fair to assume either way. Did the man accuse the alderman of something, threaten him, or make accusations about the alderman's family? Did the man act aggresively towards the alderman? I have no idea.Did the alderman just get up in a fit of rage about people not liking his stance on TIF's? Did he threaten the man with retaliation if he continued to promote his cause? I have no idea.And neither does anyone but those 2 individuals.One question I have though. Why didn't the man file battery charges?
I remember NBC5 covering this story in October. Here's the URL from their web site with Ald. Munoz explaining his side of what happened.http://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/Alderman_Activist_Scuffle_Captured_on_Video.html
Also, watch the film at 0:13. The man is walking out, and then it jumps to him being yelled at again. Why didn't they show what happened in the time they cut? The man was walking out and all of a sudden he is facing the alderman again. At no point in the video does it show the man setting off the alderman, just the alderman already yelling. Why cut that footage?
"In a perfect world, you are right. The truth is though that there are very few people that can stand and let someone make accusations or threats while they wait for the police to arrive."I'm not saying I don't expect situations like this to happen. Only that the person who resorts to violence first should always be prepared to be charged and/or arrested. That is how the system works.Also, "very few people"?
I hope everyone here finds the time not just to comment on the content of the video, but also becomes actively nvolved. This is the primary reason why politicians at every level of our government do as they do, becuase they know that most people just talk about it, complaint and ends there, no action for reform. Stop being just talkers or bloggers, get on teh phone and demand a meeting with your Alderman, TIFs are killing our communities, over taxing home owners and funneling funds under the table to those connected with the lawmakers in lieu or quid pro quo for campaign financing 'donations' aka payoffs.Feel free to contact me, become part of the solution! ChicagoCitizens@Gmail.com
First off, people calling this physical violence need to get a serious reality check. I mean, we live in Uptown for gods sake. I'd be thrilled if this was the brand of physical violence that I saw in my neighborhood.I'm not excusing what happened, but there are plenty of reasons to grab someone by the collar and physically remove them from the premises in that way. And honestly, I don't care that its an Alderman. I want my Alderman honest and hardworking. I want disclosure and transparency. Personally, I don't really care if they don't deal with abusive people in a nice way. I don't know, maybe thats the Philadelphia bred Italian in my talking.
Go Phillies! Yeah, Philly fans throw batteries at players we don't like, so this was like pretend fighting.But seriously, I'd like this activist better if HE were more transparent. Through all the shoving, profanity and video splicing, I can't figure out what the hell happened. Seems like a lot of BS to me.
*Exception: Imminent physical danger. It doesn't look like that was the case here.*Again, you don't know what happened in there. This guy totally provked him.Chicago Citizens whatever you are...learn how to spell before you promote yourself...I am with Wilson Avenue Watcher on this one. Excuse any misspellllinggs.
I am with David also. This guy was clearly some wierdo who pushed his way into the alderman's office. "Community activist" is a term that isn't what it used to be....
"Comment moderation has been enabled. All comments must be approved by the blog author."Sorry about the multiple posts, but I am enjoying my little UU time here, I have been working all night. (Many government employees do, believe it or not)But I am SO curious to read the posts that get dumped. I bet I would crack up laughing.
Whatever happened in that office, an alderman treating a person that way in his office is unacceptable. I'm sure there are legal and acceptable ways to deal with undesirable people without stooping that low, especially an elected official.My favorite line by the alderman was when, after proffering bucketfuls of the most vulgar language at the intruder, he turned and said, "God bless you." Typical politicians' rhetoric.
"Why didn't the man file battery charges?"NBC reported that the man filed a police report.
"Did the alderman just get up in a fit of rage about people not liking his stance on TIF's?"sadly, this is entirely plausible"Get the f*** out of my office!" is a typical way of thinking for a Chicago aldermanthink in terms of taking a fav toy away from a 6-year oldOccam's applies
Go Phillies! Yeah, Philly fans throw batteries at players we don't like, so this was like pretend fighting.For real. I couldn't believe that when I heard it. JD Drew had hundreds of batteries thrown at him.
This is my first time seeing this video. It is truly unbelievable. I think that the gentleman is right..... these folks need to get voted out of office in 2011.