Thursday, March 26, 2009

Target Practice

Seen today at both entrances to the Wilson Yard site. Both signs are so small with such small typeface that they are virtually impossible to read. We wonder what "major retail" in July 2010 entails? Also, see where it says "LISC?" Curiously, there is no explanation of what LISC is on the sign.

It's Local Initiatives Support Corporation, whose mission is:

"LISC's most important continuing responsibility is to provide capital investment for an increasingly diverse array of real estate development projects in low-income communities. An essential characteristic of this investment is our ability to attract other capital and forge new relationships, leveraging our dollars and accelerating the pace of physical change."

60 comments:

  1. Gee, still no official confirmation that Target is coming!

    Wouldn't you think that -- if Holsten really had confirmation that they would be there -- a REAL logo would have appeared on the sign?

    I wonder if we'll get a fake Target to go with the fake logo.

    I'm just offended at how freaking stupid they continue to think we are. Like we wouldn't notice....

    Helen used to be a graphic designer, and THAT's the best they can come up with?

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  2. I thought that there was an ordinance banning these signs?

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  3. This is surprising. Usually corporations are very nit-picky about how their corporate logos can be used (right down to fussing over the pantone red, for example.) I guess the Target brand managers dropped the ball on this one by not sending a camera-ready logo to Holsten! [?] Pretty sloppy.

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  4. Maybe we can get one of those "McDowells" from the movie Coming to America.

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  5. I'm going to reiterate my prediction of a high rise slum with vacant street level retail space.

    Oh, and a big hole in the ground next door which will remain that way indefinitely. Far beyond "July 2010."

    I've been hearing that Target is coming since I lived at Montrose and Broadway in 2001.

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  6. Remember this is Chicago and in this “fair” city there is no accountability for our leaders and their lies. And of course most aldermen think we’re stupid, especially our own alderman. What’s that saying again…..”Masses of asses”.

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  7. This is a statement from the Target website:

    "Target opens new stores at three different times throughout the year—in March, July and October—and we’ll typically confirm plans for a new store within one year of the scheduled opening. Our stores typically take nine to 12 months to build."

    So, if they plan to open a store in July 2010, then we should expect official confirmation by this July at the latest.

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  8. Sassy, I'm sure Target didn't allow their logo to be used because they're not saying they're coming to Wilson Yard. I'm positive it's not just an "oversight." Heck, if Holsten et al. had permission to use the official logo, they could have grabbed it off the web. Or had Target overnight mail it to them. Or had it emailed. Nope, this isn't just an oversight. It's a damn deception.

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  9. Send the picture to Target Corp they will have them take it down or sue to protect their intellectual properties.

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  10. Then we should probably contact Target and send them a picture of how their brand and logo are being displayed? anyone got that contact available?

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  11. New sign, any permit update?

    Awesome! They have time to create fancy signs, but no time to post their permit listing their OPERATING HOURS.

    Is Justice Graphics Inc still in business? I've got a project for them.

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  12. And the alderman, the "face of TIF transparency," just can't understand why there's a lack of trust about Wilson Yard. If she's put in charge of posting the TIF documents on her website, it's the equivalent of the fox guarding the henhouse.

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  13. Where're the Subway and game store logos?

    Beyond that, this entire thing looks like a self-sustaining social services project.

    Nice that Holsten got the top, bold faced, billing on this.

    But hey, this'll be great for the Currency Exchange(s!), local liquor stores and I'm sure pipe dreams will get some fantastic business.

    And just think of all that wonderful gang recruitment!

    Is it too early to start calling Uptown "Little Havana"?

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  14. Dang it. Justice Graphics Inc has been dissolved. Perhaps I can find its former agents and officers resettled in our community.

    Is Uplift High School near Uptown?

    What about Alderman Shiller's office in Uptown?

    I can only find Karen Zaccor at Uplift and George "Batters?" Atkins at the Alderman's office.

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  15. I sent an e-mail message to Target referencing the photo on UU, so we will see what happens.

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  16. This blatant attempt at copying Targets logo confirms it for me that Target's not coming and probably never intended to.

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  17. I wonder if Helen gets just a little embarrassed when she's caught in a lie? It's clear to everyone now that Target is not in the loop on a lot of things.

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  18. out of curiosity, who at target can we contact/email to report this blatant forgery of their brand??

    i will absolutely send a note, as i think we all should. if they receive enough messages, maybe we'll get some info directly from them!

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  19. Theres a media relations phone number on the corporate site - scroll to the question about usage rights:

    http://pressroom.target.com/pr/news/faq.aspx#rights

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  20. "This blatant attempt at copying Targets logo confirms it for me that Target's not coming and probably never intended to."

    No, no, no. That is not true.

    They did intend to at least as recently as mid-December of last year. Seriously. Let it go.

    Whether or not they hedged their bets by not signing a letter of intent is another question entirely, but they HAVE planned for WY.

    Focus on the real craziness and corruption. The Target plan isn't it.

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  21. ok... if enough of us alert target corporation of this outright pirating of their logo, helen and her clan could potentially be facing another lawsuit... woo hoo!

    from the harvard school of law (sorry for the long post!)::


    What constitutes trademark infringement?

    If a party owns the rights to a particular trademark, that party can sue subsequent parties for trademark infringement. 15 U.S.C. §§ 1114, 1125. The standard is "likelihood of confusion." To be more specific, the use of a trademark in connection with the sale of a good constitutes infringement if it is likely to cause consumer confusion as to the source of those goods or as to the sponsorship or approval of such goods. In deciding whether consumers are likely to be confused, the courts will typically look to a number of factors, including: (1) the strength of the mark; (2) the proximity of the goods; (3) the similarity of the marks; (4) evidence of actual confusion; (5) the similarity of marketing channels used; (6) the degree of caution exercised by the typical purchaser; (7) the defendant's intent. Polaroid Corp. v. Polarad Elect. Corp., 287 F.2d 492 (2d Cir.), cert. denied, 368 U.S. 820 (1961).

    So, for example, the use of an identical mark on the same product would clearly constitute infringement. If I manufacture and sell computers using the mark "Apple," my use of that mark will likely cause confusion among consumers, since they may be misled into thinking that the computers are made by Apple Computer, Inc. Using a very similar mark on the same product may also give rise to a claim of infringement, if the marks are close enough in sound, appearance, or meaning so as to cause confusion. So, for example, "Applet" computers may be off-limits; perhaps also "Apricot." On the other end of the spectrum, using the same term on a completely unrelated product will not likely give rise to an infringement claim. Thus, Apple Computer and Apple Records can peacefully co-exist, since consumers are not likely to think that the computers are being made by the record company, or vice versa.

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  22. Well just saying they are coming isn't good enough for me.

    It's all hearsay until I see an official press release from Target Corporation on their website or letter head.

    And also when you can call them and they will say a) yes we are coming b) we plan to be open by 00/00/0000.

    So until I see them admit it I remain skeptical of them really coming.

    I am not one to just believe someone or hearsay with out asking questions and proof.

    I bet a lot of Madoff's clients wish they would have asked a lot more questions of how he was getting them such good returns after it's too late.

    Lots of developers promise Wal-Marts, Targets, Bed Bath and Beyond, McDonald's etc when they are promoting their project for financing and zoning.

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  23. Further, just show us the letter of intent at this point why wouldn't Peter and Helen do that especially being their is a lawsuit against them?

    Because they don't have one is the only reason I can think of.

    You would think they would want to try and calm people to side with them.

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  24. Yes, corporations are very protective of their logos. My guess is that whoever designed the sign simply thought it was easiest to draw circles in their layout program rather than trying to get high res art from Target. Still, the proportions are way off. Since this is Chicago, I'm surpirsed Holstein's company is so prominent and not Daley and Helen's names...:)

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  25. I'm surpirsed Holstein's company is so prominent and not Daley and Helen's names

    That just shows us who needs the most help. Daley and Shiller need very little at all. They're not up for re-election for a few years.

    Holsten - Now he's on the line right now. Walsh and friends already have their logos all over the site.

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  26. I wonder if Helen gets just a little embarrassed when she's caught in a lie?

    A conscience is required to experience embarrassment.

    Does that answer your question?


    Whether or not they hedged their bets by not signing a letter of intent is another question entirely, but they HAVE planned for WY.

    Ah, but Hal ... Helen painted herself into this corner.

    She has stated, more than once, that such a letter exists.

    Considering that 60+% of our property taxes are involved in this mess, it is not asking too much for her to let us see the thing.

    She was the one who attached her credibility to the existence of this letter, not us.

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  27. Hal Shipman is correct.

    Focus on the large problems with Wilson Yard and not the minutia. This logo business is amusing, but the bigger picture is being lost.

    Target is likely planning to come. My guess is they are hoping to get more TIF money before they actually commit. The Wilson Yard TIF started out around 25 million dollars. Now I think it's over 60 million. Perhaps Target hopes to draw more honey from the TIF honeypot.

    Just imagine how much Alderwoman Shiller and Mayor Daley might be willing to offer next year in an attempt to have the Target open by the next city election in 2011.

    I'm sure the Target officials are savvy enough to start salivating at the thought.

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  28. Daley is real careful now where he wants his name after Sanchez went down and with G Rod out there running his mouth.

    I could see him throw Helen and Peter under the bus on the WY development when the FWY lawyers get expose TIF'S for what they are.

    He will have a hard time using the TIF money for all his stupid projects or should I say bribes.

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  29. A reminder from a Sun-Times report from 10/28/2008.

    Richard Spinell, principal of Oakbrook Terrace-based Mid-America Asset Management Inc., said joining Target on the property will be 20,000 square feet assigned to specialty retailers. Spinell brokered the sale for Holsten.

    Spinell's probably not going to know very much anymore unless he has uncollected money outstanding on the deal. You could contact him if you'd like details.

    As far as I know, Holsten just about never talks to the press, nor any concerned citizens.

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  30. Last winter at the Art Institute there was a Jasper Johns exhibit which had the actual Target artwork for their logo.

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  31. No Target is a big part of what is the problem with the WY plan and TIF in general.

    How continually they fail to answer us property owning tax paying citizens demand for accountability and transparency in the process.

    I say it's time for Helen and Peter to held accountable on every little detail of the WY plan down to the last cent.

    Since it's our money building it.

    We would have more say with a completely private project.

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  32. UU asked: "We wonder what 'major retail' in July 2010 entails?"

    Street drugs and 40 ouncers?

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  33. LEED Silver...That's it?? Thanks for using recycling counter tops. It's way to expensive not to be gold.

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  34. Something I do not understand?
    Why continue to protest and call the city to submitt complaints about working before and after construction hours.

    People get a life, complain to the alderman's office about crime and areas that need improvement.

    I would like to know how many of you petty people would still shop at the retail spaces that open at THE WILSON YARD once completed.

    You have failed, you fought tooth and nail to prevent them from breaking ground. The Holsten company is well underway to building his project. Do not pro-long the project and allow them to finish it.

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  35. Owner - Please allow my prior comment to be posted for others to read and comment. I is only fair to voice my opinon just as you have against organization that will attract and improve the area.

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  36. We continue to protest because this is the USA and that is our right.

    We are paying for WY therefore we have a say.

    We have to follow the rules in Chicago or pay fines so why shouldn't Holsten?

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  37. "We continue to protest because this is the USA and that is our right". Is this your only and true reason becuase you have the right to protest and becuase money used from taxes help build such a development.

    "We have to follow the rules in Chicago or pay fines so why shouldn't Holsten?"

    Are you serious, you must be a Yelper as well. Can you even stop and think how this project would improve the area and once completed how much money in taxes would come from this project. Retail and large communities pay a lot of money in property tax.

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  38. We fight because our fighting is still working.

    We fight because we believe people should have a voice in their own neighborhood.

    We fight because unlike Wilson, we won't play the victim role.

    Wilson, I wonder if you even live in Uptown because clearly you are not aware of the extent of the issues facing the neighborhood we love.

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  39. Wilson, I don't see how the people who oppose the current Wilson Yard project have failed.

    Quite the contrary. Do you think that Holsten is building round-the-clock because he's so confident of success? Nope, the construction is going ass-over-teacups because Holsten and Shiller are scared to death about what's going to happen at the legal hearing in May.

    I would like to know how many of you petty people would still shop at the retail spaces that open at THE WILSON YARD once completed.

    I'll choose to ignore your name-calling and lack of civility to answer your question.

    If it's a dirty, dark Target, no way will I shop there. I can spend my money in nicer neighborhoods at cleaner Target stores, as I've been doing for years. It would be nice to shop there if (a) Target actually comes to Uptown, and (b) I feel safe.

    Do I shop at the Aldi that's currently the only retail in Wilson Yard? No way. Seeing syringes and empty Mad Dog 20/20 bottles in the dark, dark parking lot is a great deterrent. I value my safety. I drive to and spend my money at the Montrose/Maplewood Aldi, or I walk to the new and beautiful (and no TIF funds necessary!) Fresh Harvest Market at Leland and Sheridan.

    Here's the thing: I'm middle-class. I have a car. I can choose to shop elsewhere.

    You know who can't? The low-income folks who are dependent on the ever-increasingly costly public transit system. It's an expensive trip for a family to take the bus to do shopping at a nicer/safer Aldi or Target. They're stuck with the very few stores and lack of diverse retail that Uptown currently offers.

    They're the very ones who are going to suffer the most from the spectacular lack of retail that's a direct result of the alderman using millions and millions of TIF dollars to install low-income housing, rather than using it to make Uptown a vibrant, exciting, diverse retail district. Middle-class folks have a choice of where to shop. The current Wilson Yard plan will leave few retail options for those who can't easily leave Uptown to do their shopping.

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  40. "I would like to know how many of you petty people would still shop at the retail spaces that open at THE WILSON YARD once completed."

    Well lets see, with all the social services Helen will pack in there, there won't be anywhere to actually shop. And its pretty hard to shop at an imaginary Target...

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  41. Wilson: Every developer has to following the law. Posting your permit is required by law. Posting your permit listing your hours of operation is required by law.

    Will you join us in demanding that Walsh Construction abide by the law?

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  42. Just wondering - you asked if I live in uptown and to answer your question, No i do not live in Uptown, however I do own properties within uptown and am very aware of what is going on so I can tell you that I am excited for this project to be completed. But what is going on with the area is not the project it is the neglect from the alderman and its residents that allow for bums, gangbangers, drug dealers and those that just loiter be around the area.

    My point is this take all the energy placed to stop the Wilson Yard and place it within Uptown and the undesirables around. Call police, attend meetings, form clubs to help fight combat the crime and disstress in the area. But leave the developer and project alone. Believe me when I say that if this area was anymore different from what it is now, the developer would have not resorted to allow undiserrable people to own units within the development and cash in with prices that working people can afford $250 -the upper $300K.

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  43. They are building side wall cement foundations on the target site. At least that what I seem to have seen.

    From what I read it seems they are building the target store out of Tif funds so...target gets a discounted store....

    Right?

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  44. Wilson,

    You must be new to Uptown Update, because we do all of those things that you advocate. We encourage people to attend Caps meetings. In the fall several block clubs organized neighborhood walks to help keep the drug dealers off the streets. We're constantly highlighting local retail and encouraging people to shop there.

    WY may be the biggest thing going on in Uptown, but its certainly not the only thing.

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  45. It seems a concrete sidewall foundation is being built on the target site...that's how it appears.

    Why wouldn't target allow a store to be build if it is largely subsidized by Tifs.?

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  46. I am SO confused by 'Wilson's' comments.

    He/she doesn't live in Uptown, and he/she is 'excited' about Wilson Yard?

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  47. Call police, attend meetings, form clubs to help fight combat the crime and disstress in the area. -Wilson

    It's clear you don't live here. Most of us have done that. Have you?

    As for WY, we were lied to about Aldi and we know we're being lied to about the housing and the other retail. Helen is scared, which tells me we have a pretty good chance of having some impact and the judge stating there's a case is also very positive. But even if there was no chance that we would have any influence on the final outcome, I'd rather it happen with us putting up a good fight than do nothing and whine.

    I have nothing against poor people at all. I think we could make much better use of our tax dollars than spend $450,000 on each unit of subsidized housing.

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  48. Just to add.....I'm always a bit suspect, when I see a 'profile unavailable' after a comment.

    'Wilson', if you feel so strongly about what's going on in Uptown, why don't you tell us a bit more about yourself? We all want the best up here. Just saying.....

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  49. "starck mad"

    "'Wilson', if you feel so strongly about what's going on in Uptown, why don't you tell us a bit more about yourself? We all want the best up here. Just saying....."

    haha, people who make comments using fake names and hide their identity say the darndest things!

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  50. Hey, its Ron Durham from the subpoena crowd. Darn those pesky first amdendment rights.

    Actually, i like it when Ron posts here, because that means he's not spending his time actively working to make Uptown a worse place to live.

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  51. I know Holsten is getting tax credits for the next couple of decades for Wilson Yard (as currently configured) but what kind? Income? Property? What about the alleged Target? How long will they be subsidized? Do the many current subsidized housing projects pay property taxes?

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  52. Has anyone found the correct person or department at Target that we should be contacting about this trademark infringement? If so, please share.

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  53. Wilson aka Brenden Shiller I bet.

    Or a section 8 slumlord.

    All the same really.

    Lets keep Uptown all LOW NO income.

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  54. "haha, people who make comments using fake names and hide their identity say the darndest things!"

    Welcome back, Ron.

    Let's make a deal. If you can manage to come to the Truman Square Neighbors block party this year and dirty yourself by mingling with the hoi polloi/condo owners who are your community and next door neighbors, I'll buy you a beer (or you can choose your poison) and reveal who's behind this particular ID.

    BTW, you say the darnedest things, too. Even if you really are "Ron Durham." Doesn't matter the name a person posts under, the opinions offered here, whether by Shiller's office folks under fake names, or your neighbors, we ALL say the darnedest things.

    But, of course, it hasn't escaped me that that's the REASON for a blog. You know?

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  55. From experience when Ron post that means he has been ordered to post by Helen of Helen's crew. Then Ron orders Nate Davis, and the rest of the Couraj crew to post.

    I have no doubt "Wilson" is either related to or working directly for Helen. Sad. It must drive them nuts that there is a piece of media out there they can't control like the hoards of voters they rent control.

    Like I said before from my experience, even some of the "supporters" of Helen dislike the job she does. They just know they can ring Denise Davis at anytime and get something in return. I am sure Ron has Ms. Davis on speed dial.

    As far as being anonymous, plenty of poeple on here know who I am, and I them. Uptown Update knows who I am. I just choose to keep people like you Ron in the dark. The important thing is I know who you are Ron.

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  56. He/she doesn't live in Uptown, and he/she is 'excited' about Wilson Yard?

    He/she said this in their post:

    however I do own properties within uptown

    so it sounds like he/she has a vested interest in what goes on in uptown even though they don't live there.

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  57. Target is a big smart business - they are not going to sign a letter of intent, a legally binding document, until they know there is a green-light on the project. Especially in an economy like this. Just because there is not a letter of intent, does not mean they do not intend to open a store there. As someone else said, the focus should be on the other part of the project.

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  58. The focus has been elsewhere. However, I was always under the assumption that like any TIF, it's the retail and taxes that pay for everything else. Thus, some attention on Target. I'm just wondering if this is still the case with this TIF or has it been so bastardized beyond what a TIF is suppose to be?

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  59. Target is a big smart business - they are not going to sign a letter of intent, a legally binding document, until they know there is a green-light on the project.

    But Helen and Peter have been saying they have a letter of intent, and have for many moons.

    Surely you're not saying they're ... fibbing ... about such an important piece of the TIF puzzle? ;-)

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  60. "TrumanSquareNabr"

    i'll take you up on your offer if i can make it, thanks for the invitation...

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