Our own Uplift School on Wilson is participating in the just announced program that gives up to $4,000 to students earning straight A's. Read all about it at the Sun-Times and join the discussion.
Gee, my incentive to do good in school was so that I could see the light of day. Bad report card equaled grounded till my next report card in my house.
Shame we now have to bribe kids to put some effort into their future by studying.
i might have thought this was ok until i started teaching at a charter high school not far from here. the kids there come from the same environment as the kids at uplift, yet they will be the first to admit that their education is motivation/payment enough for what they do. it might sound corny, but, when you hear it straight from the kids (who are candid about EVERYTHING) it sure is refreshing and makes you feel that all is not wrong in the world.
farrell said... Bad report card equaled grounded till my next report card in my house.
Understandable that someone who got "the big stick" of motivation would consider "the carrot" a bribe - but certainly some of the children participating in this program could use the positive reinforcement.
District officials said the 20 high schools were chosen by lottery out of 65 that applied. Duncan noted that at the selected schools, the "overwhelming majority" of students come from families in poverty......
Uplift Principal Stephanie Moore said that although she first disagreed with the proposal because she did not believe it was right to pay students for their academic success, she changed her mind when she remembered growing up as a public school student in a Chicago family with little money.
"I thought kids should want to get good grades because it's the right thing to do," she said. "Then I saw the kids' enthusiasm and I thought this would be a great incentive for kids who want to do the right thing, who don't want to be on the streets."
Hey kenny, not tired, just not surprised. Im wearing an oversized white t-shirt right now, I just have the muscles to fill it out. If you want to go to the gym sometime let me know, I won't laugh.
Seriously though, if you want to help Uptown buy an Experience Uptown Braclet, and help out local business. We all might dissagree on a wide variety of topics but having food, shopping, & business with in walking distance is a good thing.
This particular program was started by Roland G. Fryer, a Harvard economist & professor. He spoke about this on CNN's "Black in America" series as one possible solution that he encouraged to have analyzed (when a fellow academic said such an idea needed more research).
The idea is really Standard Operating Procedure for many suburban families. Perhaps not to the degree of money, but certainly many follow that concept.
For some people, it's a primary motivator. Others, it just may merely enhance what they'd be willing to do.
I don't think even Dr. Fryer would state this is the end all solution, but certainly can play one vital piece of the puzzle.
The amount may seem like a lot...but how does that compare to the price of arresting & incarcerating youth who drop out & lose incentive to learn?
And another question --is anyone tutoring any Uplift youth, or in some contact, who can track the progress of this program from a personal perspective.
Hey, it shouldn't be the motivation to get good grades, but the reality is that sometimes it is. I'm just not keen on giving any type of a reward for getting a C. I was lucky and got plenty of reinforcement to get good grades while living at home. I paid for my college and me being cheap, I was not going to waste my money and not study.
I understand they get half the money at the time of their report card and the rest when they graduate from high school. I would rather pay 1/2 up front, 1/4 at the time of graduation and the other 1/4 that would be applied to their tuition to something that would be post high school (trade school, junior college, college).
chipdouglas said... Hey kenny, not tired, just not surprised. Im wearing an oversized white t-shirt right now, I just have the muscles to fill it out. If you want to go to the gym sometime let me know, I won't laugh.
*blush* are you asking me out?
Seriously though, if you want to help Uptown buy an Experience Uptown Braclet, and help out local business. We all might dissagree on a wide variety of topics but having food, shopping, & business with in walking distance is a good thing.
Seriously though, “Kenny” is short for “Kendra” so I fill out an oversized t-shirt in a much nicer way.
I sold my car when I bought here ten years ago so I’ve been “experiencing Uptown” and its wide variety on a daily basis, don’t need to buy the tourist’s bracelet, no offense.
I hope this weekend convinces more residents that Uptown is more walkable, and more viable outside their cars than they realized.
And I still think that the positive reinforcement of "Green for Grades" may well work for some of these children, and that you've probably been listening to too much rightwing talk radio.
I'm not quite sure how I feel about paying kids to do what they should be motivated to do in the first place; but, judging by the quality of person I see roaming about our streets, I can't rightly say that it's a horrible idea.
If the CPS wants to give it a try, and not use tax money in the process ... go nuts.
It's a desperation move; but, nothing else has seemed to work to this point.
Were I a parent with kids in any of these schools, though - I'd be highly embarrassed.
This program is doomed to failure for a couple reasons.
First, the payoffs doesn't start until the kids are freshman in high school. By that point, most of the troubled kids are already in gangs and have fallen way to far behind their classmates to be helped. Those students are lost by the time they're freshman.
Second, the lost children will still have crappy parents, and its almost impossible for the schools to save the kids who have crappy parents. They might be able to save a few, but not many.
Third, the amount of effort needed to get Cs and Bs is an order of magnitude less than the amount of effort needed to get As. So why work so hard just to get a little more money? Its like being on welfare. If you can survive on welfare but need to work your ass off to just be poor, why bother? Same goes here.
On a side note, I'm sick of this whole "this happens in the nice pretty over-paid white suburban schools" argument. This is just some magic fallacy to make the program sound good.
But, in the end, this guy from Harvard is wasting his own money, so more power to him, buy the kids cars for all I care.
The more I read about Arne Duncan, the more I realize why CPS are such a mess. The motivation is totally wrong.
Doing well in school and getting good grades should all be part of the values taught in the home.
Children who do well in school have a deeper personal motivation that drives them to success in life. It's not based on money but personal sucess and belief in themselves.
We had two great kids living next door. Dion was a straight A student at Amundsen High School and an outstanding baseball and football player. He was offered scholarships to a slew of colleges, yet he almost didn't take any of them. Why?
He was the first kid in his family to graduate from high school, much less attend college. He was afraid but he did it anyway. Now he's in his sophmore year. His motivation was purely his own, and he's living proof of true success.
Whatever happened to working for your own sense of accomplishment? These kids won't go to college after this because they won't make money on going to school. Eventually, they will know what it is like to live without rewards, and they will drop out. It's a vicious cycle, we're just creating spoiled kids who think they deserve something for nothing.
They are in school, they are supposed to pass and graduate. Whether or not they choose to is their problem.
CPS shouldn't be begging for more money all the time either then. The truth is,we throw more money at these youth b/c they require security guards and metal detectors. But we're going to reward with $4k for coming?
Ridiculous... what was the point of taking them out of school and going up to New Trier to show them what they didn't have?
Oh, one more thing, the only way I'd support something like this, is their student bonus gets taxed the 39% a normal working person would be taxed for their bonus. That 39% should be flooded back into CPS, so the children actually end up supporting their school and the improvements made there. That way, it's mutually beneficial to the student and the school. And the student learns a lesson about the real world too.
I also read a story that allows CPS students to text message the police when they have a tip about criminal activity. The kicker is the student will get a $1000.00 if the tip results in an arrest. So students need to paid to get good grades and report that a classmate has a gun. If they don't care about their future why should I? I think this city does enough to take care of people who don't give a crap.
Oh, one more thing, the only way I'd support something like this, is their student bonus gets taxed the 39% a normal working person would be taxed for their bonus.
This is a pet peeve of mine, so I have to comment. Your bonus is NOT taxed at 39%. It only seems that way because your accounting system, like most, does not differentiate between a bonus and regular pay. So you get a bonus and the system simply multiplys that value by 26(assuming you're paid bi-weekly) and determines that you're clearly a rich rich man so you'll be in the highest tax bracket. Come tax time, you get the money back.
WindyCityEagle, If you want, you can go thru my tax returns, but I didn't get that money, partial - yes, but not even half. If these kids are getting rewarded for doing what they should be doing, they should be taxed and support their own education and school with that money. Then the CPS wouldn't be begging for money all the time and maybe the students can help support eachother, the way they should.
Now Kenny, (or Kendra?) there were rewards for good report cards. Not $50 for A's of course, we were too broke for that, but I would get some new books (I'm an avid reader) or maybe some fun constume jewelry or a new outfit. So there was 'the carrot' too for me.
I guess my point is that motivation to do well for these kids should come from home. Now, I know that many of these kids are coming from a home situation that is as about as supportive as a leaky diaper, so they may need outside encouragement.
What about having people who grew up in these neighborhoods, that faced similar challenges as these kids - but is now a success come in and speak to these kids? What about having reformed gangbangers who are serving out a sentence or a probation period speak to these kids about making the right decisions?
For me, the stories of people who overcame strife in their life was a much more powerful motivation to me thatn money.
I wish this program a lot of luck, and if it benefits even a few children, great - I do think that the money should be ear-marked towards the child's future - either for a college fund, or some additional education fund, instead of giving them cash.
I don't think I ever got a reward for good grade in school, and I got some good (OK? So-so?) grades. Wait, scratch that.. I remember once the winning row in the flash card race each got a piece of candy.
But won't this only motivate the kids who are already striving for good grades? If a kid is getting Cs and a few Bs, isn't he more likely to try harder than the kid getting Ds and Fs, the one who REALLY need the motivation? How about giving kids who bring their grades up from Fs and Ds to Cs and Bs the cash (or will that make students want to tank their exams to get Ds only to bring them back up easily for the cash).
And as for the guy that started this, the Roland Fryer guy, he said he wished he'd had this program in school, yet doesn't he contradict himself by saying (in the article) that a football coach and a high school counselor ultimately motivated him to succeed?
Finally, will the kids who make $200 a week selling drugs laugh at this?
I don't purport to be a sociologist but...I do remember from psych 101, low these many years, that positive reinforcement is more effective than negative reinforcement. Some of us were fortunate enough to receive all sorts of positive reinforcement, often subtle and imperceptable. Alas, such can no longer be assummed. The kids getting into the charter schools, for instance, have likely been showered with subtle positive reinforcement if not material. While I can wish it weren't true, sadly the reality is that some (more and more all the time) aren't receiving any positive stimulus in the early formative years. For this reason I would tend to support the concept.
I don't purport to be a sociologist but...I do remember from psych 101, low these many years, that positive reinforcement is more effective than negative reinforcement.
You may have a point. I will reserve judgement. How will we know if this is a success... if ever?
How about for every D,E, & F the parents and teachers have to split it 50-50 and give 40 dollars to the school.
The better plan would be to give the 40 dollars to the parents for A's. That would help motovate the parents to push their kids in school and help pay for the next pair of Air Jordans.
"Children who do well in school have a deeper personal motivation that drives them to success in life. It's not based on money but personal sucess and belief in themselves."
When I got good grades in High School it wasn't for a reward although the fact that my mother was proud of me was extremely rewarding. It was for myself. I set goals each quarter and met my goals or sometimes even exceeded them. This was tremendoulsy gratifying. It just backed up what my mother always told me "You can do whatever you put your mind to"
The simgle reason I would disagree with Paper Project is for the students that can't earn acceptable grades. Some students have learning disabilites and just can't only earn A's, B's, and C's. So this system will lower their esteem and confidence more than it probably already is.
I feel sorry for the teacher who does not give the students an "A" on a project, and the parents think the kid should have gotten an "A" and the $50 bucks.
This is letting the schools reward the student and taking that prerogative away from the parent, sounds like a big brother thing to me, what's next? Money to tell what are your family's habits!
I think I need to enroll back in school.
ReplyDeleteGee, my incentive to do good in school was so that I could see the light of day. Bad report card equaled grounded till my next report card in my house.
ReplyDeleteShame we now have to bribe kids to put some effort into their future by studying.
Great
ReplyDeletei might have thought this was ok until i started teaching at a charter high school not far from here. the kids there come from the same environment as the kids at uplift, yet they will be the first to admit that their education is motivation/payment enough for what they do. it might sound corny, but, when you hear it straight from the kids (who are candid about EVERYTHING) it sure is refreshing and makes you feel that all is not wrong in the world.
ReplyDeletefarrell said...
ReplyDeleteBad report card equaled grounded till my next report card in my house.
Understandable that someone who got "the big stick" of motivation would consider "the carrot" a bribe - but certainly some of the children participating in this program could use the positive reinforcement.
From similar article in The Chicago Tribune:
District officials said the 20 high schools were chosen by lottery out of 65 that applied. Duncan noted that at the selected schools, the "overwhelming majority" of students come from families in poverty......
Uplift Principal Stephanie Moore said that although she first disagreed with the proposal because she did not believe it was right to pay students for their academic success, she changed her mind when she remembered growing up as a public school student in a Chicago family with little money.
"I thought kids should want to get good grades because it's the right thing to do," she said. "Then I saw the kids' enthusiasm and I thought this would be a great incentive for kids who want to do the right thing, who don't want to be on the streets."
Another example of the wussification of American Kids.
ReplyDeleteMore money to buy junk food to stick in their plump faces.
You must be tired this evening, chip. I was expecting a tirade about buying oversized, white t-shirts.
ReplyDeleteHey kenny, not tired, just not surprised. Im wearing an oversized white t-shirt right now, I just have the muscles to fill it out. If you want to go to the gym sometime let me know, I won't laugh.
ReplyDeleteSeriously though, if you want to help Uptown buy an Experience Uptown Braclet, and help out local business. We all might dissagree on a wide variety of topics but having food, shopping, & business with in walking distance is a good thing.
There's another Chicago blog discussing this issue.
ReplyDeleteThis particular program was started by Roland G. Fryer, a Harvard economist & professor. He spoke about this on CNN's "Black in America" series as one possible solution that he encouraged to have analyzed (when a fellow academic said such an idea needed more research).
The idea is really Standard Operating Procedure for many suburban families. Perhaps not to the degree of money, but certainly many follow that concept.
For some people, it's a primary motivator. Others, it just may merely enhance what they'd be willing to do.
I don't think even Dr. Fryer would state this is the end all solution, but certainly can play one vital piece of the puzzle.
The amount may seem like a lot...but how does that compare to the price of arresting & incarcerating youth who drop out & lose incentive to learn?
And another question --is anyone tutoring any Uplift youth, or in some contact, who can track the progress of this program from a personal perspective.
Hey, it shouldn't be the motivation to get good grades, but the reality is that sometimes it is. I'm just not keen on giving any type of a reward for getting a C. I was lucky and got plenty of reinforcement to get good grades while living at home. I paid for my college and me being cheap, I was not going to waste my money and not study.
ReplyDeleteI understand they get half the money at the time of their report card and the rest when they graduate from high school. I would rather pay 1/2 up front, 1/4 at the time of graduation and the other 1/4 that would be applied to their tuition to something that would be post high school (trade school, junior college, college).
chipdouglas said...
ReplyDeleteHey kenny, not tired, just not surprised. Im wearing an oversized white t-shirt right now, I just have the muscles to fill it out. If you want to go to the gym sometime let me know, I won't laugh.
*blush* are you asking me out?
Seriously though, if you want to help Uptown buy an Experience Uptown Braclet, and help out local business. We all might dissagree on a wide variety of topics but having food, shopping, & business with in walking distance is a good thing.
Seriously though, “Kenny” is short for “Kendra” so I fill out an oversized t-shirt in a much nicer way.
I sold my car when I bought here ten years ago so I’ve been “experiencing Uptown” and its wide variety on a daily basis, don’t need to buy the tourist’s bracelet, no offense.
From Siam Noodle to Shake, Rattle and Read to Magnolia CafĂ©. From the Green Mill to Ace Hardware. From Alice’s African Imports to the Army Navy surplus, to the many treasures on Argyle to Mr. Salsa on Montrose. From JJ Peppers to Tweet to Crew, to the Pancake House to my bank, Ace Hardware, several grocers, my dentist, physician, insurance agent and Soggy Paws. And that's just naming a few off the top of my head.
I hope this weekend convinces more residents that Uptown is more walkable, and more viable outside their cars than they realized.
And I still think that the positive reinforcement of "Green for Grades" may well work for some of these children, and that you've probably been listening to too much rightwing talk radio.
I’ve been “experiencing Uptown” and its wide variety on a daily basis, don’t need to buy the tourist’s bracelet, no offense.
ReplyDeleteOh, buy the damn bracelet. ;-p
20% off food and drinks at great restaurants. Free massages. Free tours of the Aragon and Pegasus Theatres. Etc.
I'm thrifty - can't wait to save a hundred bucks or so this weekend. And I'm no tourist, lived here most of my life.
I'm not quite sure how I feel about paying kids to do what they should be motivated to do in the first place; but, judging by the quality of person I see roaming about our streets, I can't rightly say that it's a horrible idea.
ReplyDeleteIf the CPS wants to give it a try, and not use tax money in the process ... go nuts.
It's a desperation move; but, nothing else has seemed to work to this point.
Were I a parent with kids in any of these schools, though - I'd be highly embarrassed.
This program is doomed to failure for a couple reasons.
ReplyDeleteFirst, the payoffs doesn't start until the kids are freshman in high school. By that point, most of the troubled kids are already in gangs and have fallen way to far behind their classmates to be helped. Those students are lost by the time they're freshman.
Second, the lost children will still have crappy parents, and its almost impossible for the schools to save the kids who have crappy parents. They might be able to save a few, but not many.
Third, the amount of effort needed to get Cs and Bs is an order of magnitude less than the amount of effort needed to get As. So why work so hard just to get a little more money? Its like being on welfare. If you can survive on welfare but need to work your ass off to just be poor, why bother? Same goes here.
On a side note, I'm sick of this whole "this happens in the nice pretty over-paid white suburban schools" argument. This is just some magic fallacy to make the program sound good.
But, in the end, this guy from Harvard is wasting his own money, so more power to him, buy the kids cars for all I care.
The more I read about Arne Duncan, the more I realize why CPS are such a mess. The motivation is totally wrong.
ReplyDeleteDoing well in school and getting good grades should all be part of the values taught in the home.
Children who do well in school have a deeper personal motivation that drives them to success in life. It's not based on money but personal sucess and belief in themselves.
We had two great kids living next door. Dion was a straight A student at Amundsen High School and an outstanding baseball and football player. He was offered scholarships to a slew of colleges, yet he almost didn't take any of them. Why?
He was the first kid in his family to graduate from high school, much less attend college. He was afraid but he did it anyway. Now he's in his sophmore year. His motivation was purely his own, and he's living proof of true success.
Whatever happened to working for your own sense of accomplishment? These kids won't go to college after this because they won't make money on going to school. Eventually, they will know what it is like to live without rewards, and they will drop out. It's a vicious cycle, we're just creating spoiled kids who think they deserve something for nothing.
ReplyDeleteThey are in school, they are supposed to pass and graduate. Whether or not they choose to is their problem.
CPS shouldn't be begging for more money all the time either then. The truth is,we throw more money at these youth b/c they require security guards and metal detectors. But we're going to reward with $4k for coming?
Ridiculous... what was the point of taking them out of school and going up to New Trier to show them what they didn't have?
Oh, one more thing, the only way I'd support something like this, is their student bonus gets taxed the 39% a normal working person would be taxed for their bonus. That 39% should be flooded back into CPS, so the children actually end up supporting their school and the improvements made there. That way, it's mutually beneficial to the student and the school. And the student learns a lesson about the real world too.
ReplyDeleteWhat does Arne Duncan have to do with parental motivation?
ReplyDeleteI also read a story that allows
ReplyDeleteCPS students to text message the police when they have a tip about criminal activity. The kicker is the student will get a $1000.00 if the tip results in an arrest. So students need to paid to get good grades and report that a classmate has a gun. If they don't care about their future why should I? I think this city does enough to take care of people who don't give a crap.
Oh, one more thing, the only way I'd support something like this, is their student bonus gets taxed the 39% a normal working person would be taxed for their bonus.
ReplyDeleteThis is a pet peeve of mine, so I have to comment. Your bonus is NOT taxed at 39%. It only seems that way because your accounting system, like most, does not differentiate between a bonus and regular pay. So you get a bonus and the system simply multiplys that value by 26(assuming you're paid bi-weekly) and determines that you're clearly a rich rich man so you'll be in the highest tax bracket. Come tax time, you get the money back.
What would you say is the over/under on the time frame before the a teacher is assualted for giving a deservedly poor grade ?
ReplyDeleteWindyCityEagle,
ReplyDeleteIf you want, you can go thru my tax returns, but I didn't get that money, partial - yes, but not even half. If these kids are getting rewarded for doing what they should be doing, they should be taxed and support their own education and school with that money. Then the CPS wouldn't be begging for money all the time and maybe the students can help support eachother, the way they should.
this program being piloted in Chicago is a telling indictment of our school system
ReplyDeleteif this is their best shot at how to motivate students, it betrays a shocking bankruptcy of ideas and a lack of will for real reform
I guess it would be too hard to you know actually make school relevant or something
ReplyDeleteNow Kenny, (or Kendra?) there were rewards for good report cards. Not $50 for A's of course, we were too broke for that, but I would get some new books (I'm an avid reader) or maybe some fun constume jewelry or a new outfit. So there was 'the carrot' too for me.
ReplyDeleteI guess my point is that motivation to do well for these kids should come from home. Now, I know that many of these kids are coming from a home situation that is as about as supportive as a leaky diaper, so they may need outside encouragement.
What about having people who grew up in these neighborhoods, that faced similar challenges as these kids - but is now a success come in and speak to these kids? What about having reformed gangbangers who are serving out a sentence or a probation period speak to these kids about making the right decisions?
For me, the stories of people who overcame strife in their life was a much more powerful motivation to me thatn money.
I wish this program a lot of luck, and if it benefits even a few children, great - I do think that the money should be ear-marked towards the child's future - either for a college fund, or some additional education fund, instead of giving them cash.
I don't think I ever got a reward for good grade in school, and I got some good (OK? So-so?) grades. Wait, scratch that.. I remember once the winning row in the flash card race each got a piece of candy.
ReplyDeleteBut won't this only motivate the kids who are already striving for good grades? If a kid is getting Cs and a few Bs, isn't he more likely to try harder than the kid getting Ds and Fs, the one who REALLY need the motivation? How about giving kids who bring their grades up from Fs and Ds to Cs and Bs the cash (or will that make students want to tank their exams to get Ds only to bring them back up easily for the cash).
And as for the guy that started this, the Roland Fryer guy, he said he wished he'd had this program in school, yet doesn't he contradict himself by saying (in the article) that a football coach and a high school counselor ultimately motivated him to succeed?
Finally, will the kids who make $200 a week selling drugs laugh at this?
I don't purport to be a sociologist but...I do remember from psych 101, low these many years, that positive reinforcement is more effective than negative reinforcement. Some of us were fortunate enough to receive all sorts of positive reinforcement, often subtle and imperceptable. Alas, such can no longer be assummed. The kids getting into the charter schools, for instance, have likely been showered with subtle positive reinforcement if not material. While I can wish it weren't true, sadly the reality is that some (more and more all the time) aren't receiving any positive stimulus in the early formative years. For this reason I would tend to support the concept.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteI don't purport to be a sociologist but...I do remember from psych 101, low these many years, that positive reinforcement is more effective than negative reinforcement.
ReplyDeleteYou may have a point. I will reserve judgement. How will we know if this is a success... if ever?
How about for every D,E, & F the parents and teachers have to split it 50-50 and give 40 dollars to the school.
ReplyDeleteThe better plan would be to give the 40 dollars to the parents for A's. That would help motovate the parents to push their kids in school and help pay for the next pair of Air Jordans.
It's easy to disagree with new ideas and argue with "what ifs" but why not try something new. We already know that things aren't working now.
ReplyDeleteI just wish that 100 percent of this money would go to college expenses, because each year college is more expenses and grants are smaller.
Just like McCain's voucher system.(for Chips delectation) Why not give it a try?
Why keep an old system that has failed indefinitely ?
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteI also agree with Katharine.
ReplyDelete"Children who do well in school have a deeper personal motivation that drives them to success in life. It's not based on money but personal sucess and belief in themselves."
When I got good grades in High School it wasn't for a reward although the fact that my mother was proud of me was extremely rewarding. It was for myself. I set goals each quarter and met my goals or sometimes even exceeded them. This was tremendoulsy gratifying. It just backed up what my mother always told me "You can do whatever you put your mind to"
The simgle reason I would disagree with Paper Project is for the students that can't earn acceptable grades. Some students have learning disabilites and just can't only earn A's, B's, and C's. So this system will lower their esteem and confidence more than it probably already is.
I feel sorry for the teacher who does not give the students an "A" on a project, and the parents think the kid should have gotten an "A" and the $50 bucks.
ReplyDeleteThis is letting the schools reward the student and taking that prerogative away from the parent, sounds like a big brother thing to me, what's next? Money to tell what are your family's habits!
ReplyDelete