Monday, August 25, 2008
Wilson Yard: An Uptown Chicago Nightmare
Update: We have been told that the Wilson Yard petition previously posted here is being updated and a new petition will be coming your way soon. In the meantime, please note that Wilson Yard developer Peter Holsten has contributed $108,000 to Alderman Shiller according to this video. Why on earth would he do that?
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Got this link today. Does this Atlantic article foreshadow what's in store for Uptown (Wilson Yard)? Section 8-linked criminal activity similar to that described in the article is now occurring in Rogers Park and Uptown.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200807/memphis-crime
This is basically what we're worried about in Uptown. Unfortunately by pointing this out BillyJoe, you've exposed your racist agenda and are now one of us.
ReplyDeleteBillyJoe, you've posted this before which is how I first read it. As I have said elsewhere on this blog, poverty is connected to the violent drug trade. Selling drugs and using drugs happens where poor people are concentrated because it sucks to be poor. Some people get involved with the drug trade to either try to get themselves some money or to escape their lives. It's not rocket science people.
ReplyDeleteIt is just that in Uptown we're just not willing to talk about it because our fearless leader has taken on affordable housing as her cause celebre. (A cause for which I think I have made it abundantly clear on many posts that I support.) But the bottom line is that we can no longer afford to persist with this polyanna belief that there won't be a continuing relationship between large chunks of public housing and the violent drug trade. The simplest reason is that for the majority involved, it is not a pathway out of poverty anyway. Anyone ever read Freakenomics? All the smalltime dealers get is killed or a record and roughly minimum wage for their troubles. Few are moving up and out of the life so it persists where poor people find themselves. All of the corruption, mismanagement, and neglect of CHA has come home to roost as they say.
I am really curious why you want people to read this article, BillyJoe. (It is interesting, BTW.) What is your point? What do you hope the article will get people thinking about and discussing?
Poor people can make money off of other people for only so long. There has to be a higher-class element to the clientele at some point. Which is why IMHO the drug trade flourishes in "changing" communities (where yuppie drug users need a nearby "connection") and neighborhoods near college campuses (for obvious reasons).
ReplyDeleteI'm not saying that this is GOOD - believe me, I managed to survive the 60s and 70s drug-free thanks to family and religion - I'm just saying that this is the REALITY.
Oops, that should be "Poor people can make money off of OTHER POOR people for only so long..."
ReplyDeleteYou're right about that, gayle. I guess I implied that it was mostly poor people making the drug market and that is patently untrue. Has anyone been thinking that if the dealers are untouchable in Uptown can't we do something to make middle class users more of a target? Wouldn't Shiller just be all over that?
ReplyDeleteSo Gayle for the last 40 years your model to change this has not worked. Anymore Ideas exept to throw more money at it?
ReplyDeleteAnd damn those Yuppies all working hard and paying taxes and living life on the right side of the law. How dare they come and INVEST in to a neighborhood. Who do they think they are not looking for government handouts here in Chicago.
I heard on the radio this morning someone call Chicago a "working class" town. I almost laughed at the notion that people in this town want to work. Most the people i see working here moved here from another location to work. The locals seem to just stand in line or wait for that right city job to roll along.
I guess I implied that it was mostly poor people making the drug market and that is patently untrue.
ReplyDeleteDo you have some evidence to back that up? Because I'm calling BS on this "The Yuppies are fueling the Uptown drug market" nonsense. I'm not saying there are no Yuppies doing drugs, but I would say they are a distinct minority.
All WY is, is a place for the last remaining residents of Cabrini Green.
ReplyDeleteLet's face they don't want them over there and Daley has to put them some where.
And Holstein doesn't want them over there either because it would expose his failed model and not allow him to get rich off the taxpayers.
I think the Atlantic article is stating that Section 8 vouchers dont appear to be the cure-all to public housing ills--they just move the inner-city urban problems elsewhere . . . from Oakland, CA to Antioch, CA; from Cabrini Green to Uptown and Rogers Park; from downtown Memphis to outlying areas.
ReplyDeleteGayle,Galye, Gayle. I thought yuppies (what ever that old label NOW means) the evil ones, moved here to grab cheap real estate, throw out the poor and turn Uptown into L.P. Now you say it was to be close to the drug dealers. Glad you clarified that. So I guess "They" couldn't just drive up in their BMWs. Reefer Madnes hit L.P. and Here they are living in UT.
ReplyDeleteWell, I guess I would have to find some evidence to back that statement up more forcefully, windycityeagle. I'll try to find something credible if you'd like but instead will you just take the following two bits of anecdotal evidence. 1) weed & party drugs consumed in downtown nightclubs, lincoln park/lakeview clubs and around our local nightspot establishments (Aragon, Riv). This is a market made by middle class and wealthy people. 2) How openly college students talk about smoking pot and taking "performance-enhancing" drugs for their studies. Again, this alludes to a market being made by non-poor people. How's that?
ReplyDeleteWas that Boyda on that video? LOL
ReplyDeleteSaskia: The yuppie white potsmokers I know buy their weed from trusted friends. That's how most of the baby boomer types have been doing it for years. They do not go trolling around housing projects attempting to cop, and they would likely not smoke rather than buy drugs in such a manner.
ReplyDeleteWow. I agree with Billy Joe on his last post! May wonders never cease!?!
ReplyDeleteNow, I'm no drug expert, nor do I have statistics to back it up. All I have is my personal experience... But the majority of the drug deals that go down in front of my building on a daily basis feature buyers that don't appear to be rich yuppy condo-owners at all. Unless they 'dress down' to avoid detection.
Saskia,
ReplyDeleteI am in no way saying that non-poor people don't do drugs. Heck, my college career was a haze of weed, beer and ritalin.
But I'm saying that the non-poor are the minorty of drug users, especially when you look at the high addictive drugs like crack.
And I don't think for a second that anyone doing drugs in the clubs around Lincoln Park or Lakeview is getting them from the CHA houses on Magnolia.
I can't believe I'm going to say this, but I wholeheartedly agree with billyjoe. When I was in school we got all our stuff from a guy named Don. Don looked like someone you'd sit next to at a baseball game. If it would have taken a trip to the projects, we'd have just stuck to beer.
So I'm going to stick with my statement that the poor make most of their drug money off the poor. This has been going on for years, so there is little reason to believe that its going to stop.
Something about the way I am talking about this isn't coming across clearly. Basically, all I am saying is that the market for drugs is a big thing and it is made up of people across the economic spectrum. Windycity's description of "Don" is exactly how I think drugs get in the hands of the more well-to-do. What I wanted to know is how we could crack down on the "Dons" (since Shiller might support this) as a means to making this an inhospitable place for dealers to be.
ReplyDeleteSaskia:
ReplyDelete"Don" does not stand in front of his building looking for buyers.
"Don" sticks to selling weed only, so he doesn't attract the skankier and more dangerous crack-heroin-cocaine users.
"Don" sells to mostly (except for their love of weed) law-abiding professional people who work for a living and prefer smoking weed over drinking. When they come over, they do not alarm Don's neighbors, they do not make noise, and they do not come at late or unusual hours.
"Don" likely has longstanding clients who know the ritual and are happy to have a connect who can supply them with weed on a consistent regular basis and at a fair price. They know what a good thing they have going, and are going to do nothing to endanger Don or their ability to purchase weed.
What I wanted to know is how we could crack down on the "Dons" (since Shiller might support this) as a means to making this an inhospitable place for dealers to be.
ReplyDeleteThe Dons of the world don't live in Uptown and they're not causing the problems here. Thats a national issue far beyond the scope of the politics here.
So while Shiller may decry them, they're out of her jurisdiction.
And as a side note, the Dons of the world didn't go having gun battles in the middle of the day, they didn't rob, rape or murder. They sat in their house and debated which version of Shakedown Street was the best ever. Not really productive, but not really harming anyone either.
Ok. As Helen says, this isn't really "my issue" so I am not sure how much longer I have the interest to keep going with this. I am not sure why I am not getting any traction with you guys. All I am trying to say is that wealthier people are able to get their fix of whatever because the big drug dealing networks flourish in certain neighborhoods. Money and drugs exchange hands a few times radiating out of these locations until they get to the well-heeled users, no? It always seemed odd to me that people see no relationship between the two and that a user in Barrington, for example, can wash their hands of what is happening in Uptown. The guys shooting on the street are doing so because they want a piece of the action that the user in Barrington is helping to create.
ReplyDeleteSaskia: The drugs that are dealt in areas with high rates of poverty tend to be the drugs with the highest risks. It's not really marijuana or mushrooms, it's the hard stuff like crack, heroin, and cocaine. These are drugs with incredibly high rates of risk, but are accompanied with the highest reward.
ReplyDeleteYou'd have to find 20 buyers to accumulate a decent score selling marijuana in a day. You'd only need 5 buyers to push crack, cocaine, or heroin. These buyers are also the most needy so you can push them around on the shelf price.
If you do find marijuana in areas with a high rate of poverty, most of it is for personal consumption and isn't part of the dealing network. Unless they're desperate.
BTW, I agree with a lot of what you are saying Saskia. The caveat is that I don't think very many people that live in areas stricken with crime and poverty are even thinking about reading a book by University of Chicago economics professors.
ReplyDeleteThey're just not into that stuff.
It's a basic life.
1) Don't die.
2) Get capital.
3) Intimidate to extend your life.
4) Recruit another member to the team.
But it is ridiculous to say that wealthier people are not purchasing these drugs; of course they are. And I know for a fact that an outfit selling so-called party drugs in Uptown was recently shut down. Who is buying these drugs? Am I the only person here who thinks that drugs of all sort find their way to Uptown and then middle-man people like "Don" fulfill their market niche by coming here?
ReplyDeleteArgh. This thread is so frustrating today. I only referenced freakenomics because it was a best seller. I thought a lot of people here might have read it. I am not trying to get all cerebral about this because the basic facts as you state them are essentially it. Arghhhhhhhh.
ReplyDeleteCocaine a/k/a "powder" is being sold in the "poor" nabes? I thought that one of the reasons for the controversy over sentences for dealing crack vs. powder was that crack was a "poor man's" drug and powder was an "upscale" drug. Has this situation changed?
ReplyDeleteI thought a lot of people here might have read it.
ReplyDeleteDude, I've got a degree in Economics, so I found it interesting. I was more impressed by the guy who actually did the gang research. That's one crazy m-f'er.
I think the reason you're not getting traction is that most people who have done recreational drugs don't see parallels between the dealers they knew and the ones in the inner city. We never saw turf wars or murders or gun battles. I just don't see the "Dons" of the world coming here.
The user in Barrington has nothing to do with the issues here. The gun battle on Wilson and the related shootings are not over who is going to take control of someone smoking a dime a week in Barrington. They're fighting over the people doing crack EVERY DAY in Uptown. Notice that they fight over physical turf, which is essetially like McDonalds and Burking King having a gun fight over that lot across from Wrigley.
So answer this for me: where do the brokers in Lincoln Park, the tweaked out kids at the clubs and the "recreational" user in Barrington get their stronger stuff? Are you saying that most of the drug dealing in Uptown involves selling crack to local junkies?
ReplyDeleteAre you saying that most of the drug dealing in Uptown involves selling crack to local junkies?
ReplyDeleteYes. I would argue that most drug sales in Uptown are to local junkies. I'm making no claims about exactly what drugs they're on, only who is consuming the drugs.
"And as a side note, the Dons of the world didn't go having gun battles in the middle of the day, they didn't rob, rape or murder. They sat in their house and debated which version of Shakedown Street was the best ever. Not really productive, but not really harming anyone either"
ReplyDeletePlease don't blame rapes on these thugs too. The shooting and the drugs are their specialties,. But when it comes to rape, a little less common.
"Sexual assault murders are also more likely than all murders to involve a white offender (58% versus 48%)."
So if it's not the Don's and not the thugs who is it?
I personally feel that we should push to get these sex offenders out of our neighborhood first. Drug dealer/gang bangers cause problems. But in most cases they don't just target anyone. It's usually someone that also partcipates in gang activities or the drug trade.
Now in my opinion a sex offender is more harmful because their damamge leaves life long effects and sometimes death. They mainly target the weak( in strength) Women and children. And the victims didn't choose to be victims.
I have always been curious about drug statistics for Uptown.
ReplyDelete1. What are the drugs that are selling? Pot, Crack, Heroin, Cocaine. I doubt that homeless people are doing Acid. That would be scary!
2. Which drugs are the most profitable?
3. Who are the best clients for each drug? Homeless=Crack, Suburban kids=Pot, Tortured artists from Ravenswood=Heroin?
Seriously, who are the gangs making money off of for each type of drug? My guess would be Crack is the #1 Uptown money maker for gangs. I wonder what kind of info the police have accumulated over the years.
If we were to find out that Crack is #1 and Homeless people are the #1 clients, what would we do about it? Could we make any positive changes in the community to curb the problem? After all The DEA and the war on drugs has been a failed effort for decades, how can the citizens of Uptown do better? Is it even possible to keep the diversity of Uptown and illliminate the Gangs and the drug trade at the same time? Is it possible to have tons of lower income housing without gangs being part of the mix?
I pray this community can figure out a way to make our streets safe for everyone without mass displacement. After all, I'm sure everyone would like to see the Pulitzer Piece Prize on our Uptown banners.
Uhhh...Butternut...that should be "Nobel Peace Prize."
ReplyDeleteP.S. Where's the epicenter of the crystal meth trade? For many years it was stereotyped as a "rural hillbilly drug" but I understand it's starting to creep into some urban centers.
See that is where we disagree, windycityeagle. No doubt there is a rampant trade in Uptown between local dealers who are feeding the habits of local junkies. However, to bring us back to what gayle originally said, I also think that these same dealers (or their larger networks) are part of the system that delivers harder core drugs to well-heeled users. You are right that if a guy in Barrington wants to party (on whatever drug) he is not going to come down to Magnolia. But somebody else will and he'll get what he wants. What we are left with, then, are successful dealers who see it is good to stay here who want to fight with other dealers who want to be here too.
ReplyDeleteI am pretty sure that crystal meth is sold here in Uptown but it is manufactured elsewhere.
ReplyDeleteI personally feel that we should push to get these sex offenders out of our neighborhood first. Drug dealer/gang bangers cause problems. But in most cases they don't just target anyone.
ReplyDeleteCan we get rid of both? Is that too much to ask? Or does Uptown get one of the other?
"Sexual assault murders are also more likely than all murders to involve a white offender (58% versus 48%)."
So if it's not the Don's and not the thugs who is it?
Can you provide some documentation? I've looked everyone and I can't find anything that mentions an "Sexual Assault Murder"
Your numbers are suspiciously close to the numbers for a comparison of Sexual Assault versus Murder.
Per Wikipedia
Between 1974 and 2004 52.1% of murders were comitted by Blacks and 45.9% by Whites.
A 1997 report on rape and sexual-based crimes showed 56% of offenders were white, 42% Black.
Definitely an interesting comparison. But according to the statistics, in the absense of other data, you're more likely to be murdered and/or raped by your black neighbor than your white one.
Of course, you're also more likely to be raped and/or murdered by someone living in your own house, so go figure that out.
saskia your reaching.
ReplyDeleteAs a former drug user for fun I have a agree with most of what the guys are saying.
Though I will say that there is a white woman in the area who I have seen buying drugs from a Black P Stone. So, the is some, small, truth to what you say.
On the topic of sex offenders and "getting them out of the neighborhood":
ReplyDeleteI have friends who obsess over the web site that identifies the residences of sex offenders who have been released from jail.
Too bad they ignore the statistics that show that the typical child sex offender is a family member or closed and trusted family friend, not some stranger living down or across the street or hall from you.
Ok. So I am to understand that the drug dealers in Uptown mainly sell to local junkies, few of which are locals with middle class trappings or aspirations. Second, no one has knowledge of where tweaked out club kids get their stuff, or where the trader in Lincoln Park gets his blow but it certainly is not from dealers in Uptown (or their cohorts). It would be a stretch to think that a "Don" would come to this neighborhood to pick up some product to sell it to people who live in better parts of Chicagoland.
ReplyDeleteIf I am getting things wrong, please tell me how wealthier people get their drugs. I can't believe that the sales networks wouldn't intertwine in poor neighborhoods at some point.
I am pretty sure that crystal meth is sold here in Uptown but it is manufactured elsewhere.
ReplyDeleteMost crystal meth is imported from Mexico, very little of it is made in the United States in the "home labs" we here some much about.
Windycityeagle
ReplyDeleteYeah we can do both, but it just bothers me that there is never any mention of it. It seems as if the only problems here are WY and people wearing white t shirts.
http://www.mincava.umn.edu/documents/sexoff/sexoff.html#id2375146
Saskia,
ReplyDeleteAdmittedly I only had time to read the abstract, and the study is from the UK, but according to the Authors, the Dons of the world buy their drugs from the "middle market brokers" who do not exist in Uptown.
UK Drug Study
It seems as if the only problems here are WY and people wearing white t shirts.
ReplyDeleteWY is a valid concern and has become the embodiment of everything that people on here don't like about our Alderman and the way things are run in the ward. It also has the potential to do irreparable harm to the neighborhood.
The T-Shirts however are another story. I can't believe that post got so much action.
OOps, that mistake was a bit silly. Thanks for the correction Gayle. I did mean Nobel Piece Prize.
ReplyDeleteI would blame my mistake on being under the influence of drugs but alas, an overdose of Caffeine is legal so I guess it doesn't count.
Ok, so I guess I mistakenly placed "Don" as a middle market broker when he is further down the stream. But whatever that middle market broker. But where do the Dons meet up with even the middle market brokers? What I was originally trying to get at is if this is happening in Uptown then maybe there would be some political capital (Shiller) to go after them which would then hurt the guys who have settled in more permanently (politically untouchable here).
ReplyDeleteAaahh...you guys are killin' me today! I am going to try real hard to check out now because I need to get some work done!!! I know we are all basically after the same thing---a safer community---and I was interested in talking about another way of getting there and also a little bit about the hypocrisy of "nice" people living in "good" neighborhoods who can't possibly believe that their kid's coke addiction has anything to do with community college kids getting shot up in Uptown, dahling. When we get right down to it I am not interesting in enabling that either.
Damn you Caffeine! *PEACE!
ReplyDeleteI agree windycityeagle, as a former dealer myself it would not be smart for a whiteboy to go to the hood to buy a large quantity of whatever. You are likely to be robbed and beaten up. My point is you don't see the dealers in surburbia running around killing each other, the dealing is done behind closed doors and not on the street corner. Regardless of who the gets what from where it comes down to who will more readily committ a violent crime.
ReplyDeleteDid anybody see primetime:crime on wednesday it was about how a community trying to stop drug dealer. It was very good how the community work together and made a difference.
ReplyDeleteI don't know how to make a link to it but it's on my blog. Can someone tell me how to make a link on here that you can click.
to create a link you need to type in this code:
ReplyDelete<a href="http://www.thewebsite.com"> link name </a>
it will look like this: W3 Schools
Saskia, I don't think Alderman Shiller would do anything if you could show her a clear case of where the drugs are coming into Uptown from outside sources and are abusing Uptown.
ReplyDeleteI think that for simply one reason - she refused to support a ban against those itty-bitty baggies that crack is typically sold in. Why? Because it would affect local beaders! Really?
She knows what is going on... but as long as people keep voting her into office, she won't stand against it.
Saskia: I explain it this way.
ReplyDeleteStreet dealer: What we have a lot of in Uptown that you can see, the opponent gangs can see, and what the police can see.
Boutique dealer: Also in Uptown, but transactions are indoors, probably in their home or in their rented property of distribution, to clients that know them, or are referred to them, that are mainly non-violent and do not draw the suspicion of neighbors.
Both are bad. The street dealer is 1000 times worse. The street dealer is a catalyst variable for dealing related crimes.
If the tweaked out suburban kids of Lincoln Park white collar junkies are in Uptown, you'll notice them. They're probably white. They probably are acting in a way as if they've never been to Uptown. And they're probably driving a peacock with wheels.
Don't the street dealer and the boutique dealer source from the same place or from a small group of common sources?
ReplyDeleteI doubt they receive from the same source. Maybe eventually if you trace every seller to their supplier.
ReplyDeleteThe chances are likely. If you trace every soda seller you'll eventually end up at Archer Daniels Midland in Peoria, IL.
From the article BJ posted:
ReplyDeleteStudies show that recipients of Section 8 vouchers have tended to choose moderately poor neighborhoods that were already on the decline, not low-poverty neighborhoods. One recent study publicized by HUD warned that policy makers should lower their expectations, because voucher recipients seemed not to be spreading out, as they had hoped, but clustering together. Galster theorizes that every neighborhood has its tipping point—a threshold well below a 40 percent poverty rate—beyond which crime explodes and other severe social problems set in. Pushing a greater number of neighborhoods past that tipping point is likely to produce more total crime. In 2003, the Brookings Institution published a list of the 15 cities where the number of high-poverty neighborhoods had declined the most. In recent years, most of those cities have also shown up as among the most violent in the U.S., according to FBI data.
And this... is case in point why Wilson Yard is the issue in Uptown. It is the 'tipping point' for Uptown.
Ok. Sorry I ended up inadvertently hijacking this thread. Wilson Yard: An Uptown Chicago Nightmare. Discuss...
ReplyDeleteThank you butternut
ReplyDeleteOK here's the link: read it. It's something new for a change in solving gang issues in a community.
New Program Reforms Drug-Torn Neighborhood
North Mag...
ReplyDeleteBig difference in a 63 year old crack dealer with a skill than an organized gang of teenagers slinging dope and shooting up the hood. Also the article only targeted non-violent offenders. Im affraid the Black P Stones would not qualify.
I did like one line from that article..
"Working makes me feel good,"
Wow! What a concept, please feel free to pass it around Magnolia.
Man O man, I have been laughing at myself all day.
ReplyDelete"Pulitzer Piece Prize." I do believe I just won the award for the stupidest comment of the week. The irony is I looked up Pulitzer on Google to make sure I spelled it right so I wouldn't look like a dumb ass. Too late!
If we can't laugh at ourselves than what good are we. WOW!
And this... is case in point why Wilson Yard is the issue in Uptown. It is the 'tipping point' for Uptown.
ReplyDeleteExcept for one thing farrell. Uptown is not a "declining neighborhood." Those of us who've lived here for a decade or more can attest to that fact.
Though I do have concerns about the housing component of WY placed in that particular census tract, a look at the census data from 1990 and 2000 clearly shows that there were 20% fewer people living in poverty in Uptown in 2000 than in 1990.
Where did those 3,823 people go? I'd like to think they moved out of poverty, not out of the hood.
At any rate, it will be interesting to compare the results of next year's census to 2000 and 1990, don't you think?
Butternut said...
ReplyDeleteMan O man, I have been laughing at myself all day.
"Pulitzer Piece Prize."
I got a chuckle out of that, too - but since I just realized that next year is 2009, not 2010, I'm not sure if that helps. ;-)
chipdouglas ~ the story is about a community coming together and trying to get rid of a problem and how they did it together. I thought this was a good idea maybe not. How do we know if we don't try it. Especially if we have no other solution I heard of for the problems here in uptown.
ReplyDeleteIf you have a solution please tell me. I need a know so I can help.
"Most Residents don't want to work together."
ReplyDeleteNot true. I work together with local law enforcement and lock up as many of these little thugs as I can. That is my way. I "work together" with my neighbors, building a network to call 911 as often as possible.
Dacutestbabiesmommadaddycousin and North can work together their way, no one is stopping you. If this blogging in so bad why do you two feel the need to do it?
You don't help me calling 911 & reporting things yet you use my tax dollars to help your way.
Doesn't seem fair does it? So much for working together.
By the way..I was a little prick growing up. You know who straightened me out? A Judge, and not a little whimp Judge either. This was a fire and brimstone judge who scared the hell out of me enough to set me straight. He didn't take any of my bull$hit excuses, he flat out kicked my a$$ verbaly and almost had my big ass in tears.
ReplyDeleteA damning indictment of our ward's corrupt leadership?
ReplyDeleteStatistics and patterns etc. etc. aside, based on the 'ol "What I can see with my own two eyes" I have to at least partially agree with Saskia. On quite a few occasions I have noticed a drug deal going on (in the middle of the day or night, it varies) not because I particularly enjoy stalking the CHA houses on Magnolia Ave but because my attention was caught by something out of the ordinary, for instance the "well-cargo khakied" high-school age white kid who rolled his bike right inside the fence at 4446, strolled inside with his backpack on, and emerged again 4 minutes later looking nervously in both directions. Now, while I don't claim to be an expert on drug deals nor do I intend to racially profile CHA houses, I can assert with marked confidence that this young lad (I like to call him "Don") does not live there nor was he stopping by to work on a group geo-science project.
ReplyDeleteMy point is, I understand why people think that all neighborhood drugs enter this vicious poor/local cycle; we see the junkies on Broadway and Wilson, hear about arrests and complaints, and find drug paraphernalia and trash thrown haphazardly in our front yards. Just know that, be it on bicycles or in BMWs, there ARE outsiders coming here to score on a daily basis (I see them) and BOTH sides of the trade need to be addressed to see any change.
Kenny, I agree Uptown is not a declining neighborhood. However, do you think WY is going to be 2 steps forward for Uptown, or 10 steps back? I think its 10 steps back...
ReplyDeleteIf it was built as it should be - mixed income, NOT 2 high-rises that are an eyesore to the community, with lots of retail facing Broadway that brought in good foot traffic and revenue, I'd be kissing Shiller's feet. In its current iteration, I see little difference between this building and Cabrini Green when it was first built. Except WY will have granite. Whoopee-do.
While I've heard from some that claim that WY will benefit poor people (I disagree) I have yet to hear anyone state that it will benefit Uptown in the long run, and why.
That tells me something right there...
"My point is, I understand why people think that all neighborhood drugs enter this vicious poor/local cycle.
ReplyDelete"Just know that, be it on bicycles or in BMWs, there ARE outsiders coming here to score on a daily basis"
Come on. This is a plant to try and discredit posts above. This is such a bad generalization. We know all us rich condo white folks drive "BMW's."
"well-cargo khakied"
That is every whitekid steriotype. Did he ride his bike all the way from the burbs?
That is Troll work. Get a life.
Chip-
ReplyDeleteI guess you're the only one that pays taxes, huh?
Hi Chip,
ReplyDeleteSorry to hear you think I'm a troll or a plant. It actually couldn't be further from the truth. I used "well-cargo khakied" in an attempt at making a witty connection to the term "well-heeled" that had been used so frequently early in the post. While my bachelor and master degree post-secondary education led me to believe that this was actually clever and pertinent, I will leave humor to Irish Pirate and other less troll-like UU bloggers in the future to avoid confusion.
If you'd like, Chip, I can send you the number of the 911 call I made about this "stereotyped white kid," or even a copy of the original email I wrote to UU back in June complaining about people coming into the neighborhood to buy drugs based on this kid. I don't really care where he rode from, I care where he rode to to get his drugs. Sorry, I didn't take the time to follow him, I just called 911.
If it helps, since moving here just a few months ago I have attended and spoken at the community meeting at Truman College, joined my Block Club (once I could figure out which one it is), attended a FORUM meeting, attended and donated at a "Fix Wilson Yard" meeting, attended the "Block Club U," and filled out a gang half-sheet on the house previously mentioned. Now, I say any little bit helps, but I'd like to see if your list of recent community participation places you in a category to criticize me.
In MY condo building the rich owners drive Lexuses, Audis, and Range Rovers, not BMWs. I only mentioned this car because I repeatedly see a red one whose plates have been reported to the Narc sargent I met at the community meeting. If you want to go troll watching, I happen to drive a Nissan because most of my income goes to PAY A MORTGAGE. Though it absolutely shouldn't matter to you or others here, I AM a middle class, white condo owner.
If you actually read my post, you should know that I didn't in any way attempt to discredit the comments written there. Everybody else on this blog doesn't have the luxury to live "in the hot zone" and by offering my observations I pointed out that both sides of the issue exist. While I didn't earn my degrees in linguistics, I'm pretty sure that's taking a central position.
But hey, I'm a fair person. Chip, you and anyone else are welcome to come sit out on my front lawn with me, where I like to do positive loitering as much as I can. This is where I see most of my phantom yuppie drug deals, so maybe we can watch together. If business is slow, you can always clarify that I don't have a pastel mohawk or jeweled navel.
NewKidOnTheBlock how many degrees do you have? You failed to mention it enough times for it to sink in.
ReplyDeleteI am sorry, as someone who has lived in Uptown for a good time now your post strikes me a phony.
"If it helps, since moving here just a few months ago I have attended and spoken at the community meeting at Truman College, joined my Block Club (once I could figure out which one it is), attended a FORUM meeting, attended and donated at a "Fix Wilson Yard" meeting, attended the "Block Club U," and filled out a gang half-sheet on the house previously mentioned."
You forgot when you did your volunteer work at the inspiration cafe and then bought the Uptown Theatre.
"In MY condo building the rich owners drive Lexuses, Audis, and Range Rovers, not BMWs."
Where are all these "rich" condo owners living? I want to know. Im in Sheridan Park and the condo owners I know are pretty middle class, and drive dented up cars with lots of miles.
Keep calling 911 on the kid from the Gap add you keep seeing running in to the drug house across from the "rich" people that is your building. Im Sure he is buying all the crack in Uptown from his American Eagle check.
Good Lord, chipdouglas, your last few posts come across as suspicious and angry! North Magnolia was trying to be proactive in taking the time to post something that he or she felt was relevant to battling the drug activity in this community. No need to knock that. Come on, play nice.
ReplyDeleteAnd, while I could sense your annoyance with newkid's several references to wealth and degrees, I have to say that I don't think the was phony. I must live near him (I am assuming gender here for simplicity's sake) because I knew EXACTLY who he was referring to when he mentioned the white kid with the cargoes going into 4446 Magnolia, which BTW is a really problematic apartment building and people who live near it know it. A neighbor and I have seen this white dude lots of times. So, between that and all the other activity those of us who live near Sunnyside Mall witness all the time, I would say that the people buying drugs up here aren't all from this area. Some are because I see them walking down Wilson all the time, but there are those people who roll up and you just know aren't from here. Oh, and I see that white lady you referred to in an earlier post all the time too.
So let me get this straight...first I'm a troll and stereotyper and my opinion doesn't matter, then I'm too qualified and stuck up for my opinion to matter? Apparently on UU only the very small slice of dented-car AND condo owning residents won't be lambasted for comments. Glad that's cleared up.
ReplyDeleteChip-I know you are embarrassed for incorrectly "crying troll," but there is no need to lash out and ignore what I was trying to say. Maybe the people who live and have moved into Uptown are not exactly what you are accustomed to, but that doesn't necessitate that they are phony. If you'd like, email me at STANDUPtown@gmail.com and we can chat--I'm sure we've probably have passed each other before and you probably didn't mind me, that is until you found out that I don't ONLY blame poor crack addicts for Uptown's drug problem.
newkid--I was not at all trying to imply that you were "too qualified and stuck up for my opinion to matter"! Easy. I was just noticing that you and chip seem to come from pretty different places as is evidenced by the things in your earlier post he seemed to take issue with. Of course your opinion matters, but you don't need me to tell you that. Just wanted to clear up any misunderstanding.
ReplyDelete"4446 Magnolia"
ReplyDeleteSee here is where your post is full of holes...Who is "rich" that lives on magnolia at this address or near it? Come on. Im in the area, your not fooling anyone.
I know I am arguing with the same person under different names so this will be my last post about the subject.
Matryushka, dacutestbabiesmomma, and newkidontheblock all live in the Same building..how funny is that that none of them work and all three have time to troll the blogs?
I sound angry? Yet you all write with (!!!!!!!)
Done
Did anyone say that they lived at 4446 N. Magnolia or did they say they witness activity there? Hmmmm. As for the question who is rich that lives on Magnolia, no one from what I can tell, but I guess that depends on what you think of as "rich."
ReplyDeleteI am not a troll and I have no idea if I live in the same building as newkid and babymamma, not that it matters. Not sure what your point is and am now beyond caring because I can see that your attitude promotes divisiveness in this community.
Your first name must refer to that thing sitting on your shoulder. Peace, out.
Dear Matryushka,
ReplyDeleteDon't worry, my last quasi-overdramatic post wasn't at all directed at you...in fact, I didn't even see you had posted until mine was submitted--that said, I appreciated what you did say and am glad I'm not the only one who sees things going on. I didn't mean for money or education to become an issue, it just seemed like Chip assumed I was among a group of apparently unwelcome bloggers who have neither and are bitter about it. I have since realized that debating the issue requires that both parties have logic beyond that of a barracuda and my efforts were futile.
We probably do live near each other, feel free to email me (that address was actually real) and we'll loiter together in our pretend front yards. Wait...I forgot, we are the same person so nevermind. ; )
I was actually thinking the name refered to him being full of the cow variety...
chip ~ all I did was post a link to a show I saw about a community getting rid of there gang problem. You snap on me and start asking personal questions about me life are you serious. What make you think I don't call 911 or pay taxs. How do your taxs help pay my way last I checked I pay my own way.
ReplyDeleteIf this blogging in so bad why do you two feel the need to do it?
I am just going to ignore you because I never said blog was bad.
I ask for a solution and you are giving me your problems I don't need your problems I have my own.
north magnolia--Hey neighbor! Your post makes me sad. I just wanted to tell you not to bother wasting any time justifying yourself to that troll-crying paranoid hack. Who knows, myabe he's a troll himself. Whatever. You did nothing wrong and have as much of a right to post links and blog as anyone else. Keep saying your piece. The rest of us are listening.
ReplyDeletenewkidontheblock
ReplyDeleteWho were you referring to when you said this? Please be specific
"I didn't mean for money or education to become an issue, it just seemed like Chip assumed I was among a group of apparently unwelcome bloggers who have neither and are bitter about it."
I would really prefer to see this kept to the issues and not opinions of the other posters. So can we all stop making assumptions and innuendoes about the other people who post here?
ReplyDeleteDCM-
ReplyDeletePlease don't read too much into it. Hopefully you can see that I wasn't attempting to be incendiary, nor was I subscribing to the views expressed. I was more trying to show that making divisive assumptions can backfire.
lol, this thread has become an Uptown Chicago Nightmare. Sorry, Caring Neighbor