Comments on Uptown Update: In Case You Missed It

kenny said...Incidentally, the mortgage interest d...

2008-08-17T15:03:26.165-05:00

kenny said...
Incidentally, the mortgage interest deduction is the government's biggest housing subsidy, and disporportionately benefits upper income homeowners.
I agree. The mortgage interest deduction is the single largest benefit to owning a home. But I don't understand how it unfairly benefits upper income homeowners. I benefits all homeowners equally. You deduct 30% of your mortgage interest, regardless.

Kenny, you are whining about the wrong people. The...

2008-08-17T08:36:00.833-05:00

Kenny, you are whining about the wrong people. The high taxes due to the pay to play politics and money-guzzling TIFs have made Chicago a more expensive place to live. You can thank Daley and "your" alderman Helen for making the problem worse. There has never been a TIF that Helen didn't like, including the LaSalle TIF. She has also sold out and fully embraced Daley's kind of politics.Let's hear it for term limits.

I am not sure what a “pensant liberal” is but I gu...

2008-08-16T16:04:01.186-05:00

I am not sure what a “pensant liberal” is but I guess that is me. Kenny, we are actually making the same points but we come out differently in the end. During the first furor over Wilson Yard, I was a renter and had much the same opinion as you. I just thought "tsk...tsk"---here we go again with the usual anti-affordable housing backlash. But Uptown is bizarroland and things are often not as they appear. I have gotten quite an education in the intervening years and this hippy-dippy artsy-fartsy latte-lovin' non-profit liberal who also shops at Family Dollar & Village Discount (Mondays!!!) is intensely critical of our current state of affairs because it is running counter to what it will take to be a successful mixed income community.

Poor people can benefit from living in a mixed income community because middle class people aggressively fight for all the stuff you see people griping about on these boards: better city services, higher quality schools, safer and cleaner public areas and better commercial (which can also increase job opportunities for local residents). Of course there is always a risk that as property values rise that poor people will be displaced, services/businesses for them will disappear and that as schools improve (such as through magnet programs) the poorest kids won’t always see an increase in their opportunities. However, Uptown has a long and illustrious history of protest and a number of entrenched institutions that have always made me believe that the least fortunate among us will not be forgotten. I used to be much more bullish on Uptown’s prospects in this regard before I fully understood the self-loathing behind the ways the Shilleristas want to deal with economic diversity. Now what I see are zero-sum games and middle class residents becoming bitter and distrustful. If there is a superconservative backlash I wouldn’t be surprised. These are good people who are being ignored and treated vindictively. People will only keep their hearts open for so long under these circumstances. If any neighborhood had a good shot at being a terrific diverse community I thought it was Uptown. These days I am not so sure…

I am sorry you lost your home, Kenny. But what could have been done to stop it? Uptown is not an island and most property owners are not interested in running low-rent properties forever. For most landlords it was the default position. I would be really interested to know how you think Uptown could work within this market model that we are stuck with and make this a place where artists, waiters and young teachers can live? Right now I see rejecting a mixed income model at WY as moving us even further along in the path of what a staffer at R.E.S.T. once called a “dumbbell” shaped community---lots at the bottom & lots at the top with few in the middle.

Uh, Kenny. The wonderful rental you mentioned on L...

2008-08-16T03:03:13.548-05:00

Uh, Kenny. The wonderful rental you mentioned on Lawrence & Kenmore before it went condo was a drug haven with tons of crime. I am delighted it went condo. On the NE corner of that same block is a low income housing that was once for seniors and is now quickly becoming housing for the mentally ill. On the SW corner of the same block is another low income high rise for the mentally ill. One block east is low income housing for Asian seniors and across the street from that is the men's REST shelter. Just south of the REST shelter is a low income high rise.

Heading north on the corner of Kenmore & Lawrence is a CHA scattered site and a Voice of the People building. Heading south on that same corner is a scattered site CHA and then there's Habitat for Humanity housing that's one block south of that. Heading one block west of Kenmore & Lawrence you get 4848 Winthrop, another low income high rise and a block south of 4848 is more scattered site CHA housing. One block west of the scattered site CHA housing on the 4600 block of Winthrop are 3 shelters and one block west of those 3 shelters is a nursing home for the mentally ill. One block north of the nursing home is 1207 Leland which is more low income housing with some set aside for the mentally ill. Across the street from 1207 is the Darlington. One block west of the Darlington is more scattered site CHA housing, and one block north of that CHA housing is more scattered site CHA housing. One block west of the CHA housing at 4700 Magnolia is some JPUSA housing, some HUD housing, and the Miriam SRO that has a number of active prostitutes. I apologize for not mentioning a few other CHA high rises and SRO's in the area, but I think I made my point.

Kenny my man, are you getting the picture when we mention enough is enough? I think we're covered on providing housing for the less fortunate. Now whine about something else that has you victimized, you poor little thing.

Starck Mad said... hmmm......not buying it kenny.y...

2008-08-15T23:04:57.599-05:00

Starck Mad said...
hmmm......

not buying it kenny.

you can achieve what you strive for.

Ahh, the perpetual justification for low wages,
"just work a little harder." But you see, there are always people like me, people who are firemen and artists and teachers, even people with college degrees, who work hard and contribute to society but will never earn the money to be able to afford a $500,000 condo.

Perhaps you need to open your mind a little to what I'm saying.

hmmm......not buying it kenny.you can achieve what...

2008-08-15T22:51:46.807-05:00

hmmm......

not buying it kenny.

you can achieve what you strive for.

Starck Mad said... she still makes more sense........

2008-08-15T22:49:31.772-05:00

Starck Mad said...
she still makes more sense.....

we ALL should 'pay attention'

How nice for you, that your "attention" and "sense" need not include that of modest means.

she still makes more sense.....we ALL should 'pay ...

2008-08-15T22:42:42.898-05:00

she still makes more sense.....

we ALL should 'pay attention'

Starck Mad said... sorry 'kenny', but 'saskia' is ...

2008-08-15T22:32:31.291-05:00

Starck Mad said...
sorry 'kenny', but 'saskia' is right on.

WY is clearly, in it's present form, a disaster
in the making.

I never said it wasn't. I merely questioned the tactics of the bein pensant liberals in the hood, who weep and march for the plight of firemen and artists even while same are losing their homes to condo conversions.

Pay attention.

sorry 'kenny', but 'saskia' is right on.WY is clea...

2008-08-15T22:12:00.468-05:00

sorry 'kenny', but 'saskia' is right on.

WY is clearly, in it's present form, a disaster
in the making.

Everyone is concerned about the basic welfare of
the community's citizens, but I don't think Uptown
needs yet another 'refugee camp'.....which studies
show, Wilson Yard could be a petrie dish of crime in the making.
The only solutions I can offer up, is support 'fix wilson yard', and try to come together, and report
crime more.

Saskia said... This would be housing for people wi...

2008-08-15T20:01:57.820-05:00

Saskia said...
This would be housing for people with steady jobs and a good employment history but not much capital for a downpayment and not much extra left over each month. (I.e., Grocery store workers, waitstaff, artists, social service agency employees...) It is these people that Uptown is losing and has lost.

But people like that – like me – well, we shop at stores like “Family Squalor,” not the kind of “quality retail” people seem to be clamoring for. And a lot of those people, including some really cool, freaky artists, musicians and waitstaff and social workers were evicted from a rather large rental apartment building on the NW corner of Lawrence and Kenmore several years ago because it went condo.

So I never really understood the “Artists’ Residence Housing” thing of 2004. It was like “we don’t care if you get evicted because your apartment went condo, (that’s the market, the one we worship) but really, we do care, because we’re marching for the government to give you a new place to live.

Give me a fucking break.

I think there should be more nice apartments for t...

2008-08-15T04:44:33.226-05:00

I think there should be more nice apartments for those who don't qualify for subsidies but can't quite afford to own. Or those who may qualify for a subsidy and afford market rent but either don't want to live in subsidies apartments or simply isn't far on the waiting list or can't get on. -dacutestmama

This would be housing for people with steady jobs and a good employment history but not much capital for a downpayment and not much extra left over each month. (I.e., Grocery store workers, waitstaff, artists, social service agency employees...) It is these people that Uptown is losing and has lost. However, WY will do nothing to address their situation because they make too much money to be on the public housing or section 8 list and because Holsten can't reserve the housing for current or recently displaced Uptown residents. These basic facts are being entirely lost in the discussions that are happening in this community. WY is all about the flawed CHA "plan for transformation" and about affordable housing activism. As usual, Uptown is the physical location where supra-local politics gets played out. Wouldn't it be nice if the people who live here (ALL THE PEOPLE WHO LIVE HERE) ever got a voice in what is happening?

'Dacu' and 'Kenny' are concerned about the lack of...

2008-08-14T22:24:12.016-05:00

'Dacu' and 'Kenny' are concerned about the lack of
low income housing in Uptown. Seriously?

Nothing you say, seems to ring true to me, in my
humble opinion. Uptown, is a social services experiment gone terribly wrong.
I've lived on Malden for 17 years, and the ground zero
areas, in terms of 911 calls, crime and gangs, squarely
falls upon the buildings that house no/low-income
housing.
Again....that is why the Wilson Yard 'project' looms
large, and sinister for most people.

{However it's hard to get information from them(46...

2008-08-14T21:56:29.680-05:00

{However it's hard to get information from them(46th Ward Office) without being cursed out.}

I hear ya. That's why I'm left with little choice but to work for improving my neighborhood with one hand while the other works to change the leadership.

I can only dream about what two hands working on the same project can accomplish.

God I love America. If you think it's wrong to own...

2008-08-14T21:21:55.286-05:00

God I love America. If you think it's wrong to own a condo then don't own a condo. If you are able to buy a condo and want one, go for it. If you want a condo but can't afford one, then take the slow steps to eventually buy one. For me it meant a lot of personal sacrifice for many years so that I could afford one.

Whining about it didn't set me in the right direction to get a condo. Demanding that someone do the work for me didn't work either. And yes, I love the tax deduction. I also know my property taxes pay for the many social services in Uptown. So be glad I own a condo.

The Soul of Murray Humphries I agree this informat...

2008-08-14T20:23:47.445-05:00

The Soul of Murray Humphries

I agree this information should be available in the Aldermans office. However it's hard to get information from them without being cursed out. I called once and asked for a number to an agency in Uptown and they, well he told me he wasn't the damn directory and that I should look in the phone book.

So even if it is available there, it wouldn't help much! Sad to say, but true.

holy moley said... When compared to the rest of Ch...

2008-08-14T17:47:29.374-05:00

holy moley said...
When compared to the rest of Chicago, Uptown has less than half of the rate of homeownership. We need more condo conversions and not less. Let the other neighborhoods deal with getting more rental units. That's not Uptown's problem for now.

I'm more concerned right now with the effects of The Homeownership Obsession and that we haven't seen the bottom of it yet.

Incidentally, the mortgage interest deduction is the government's biggest housing subsidy, and disporportionately benefits upper income homeowners.

So I might add ok no more condos then no more Apar...

2008-08-14T16:36:34.353-05:00

So I might add ok no more condos then no more Apartments that would be fine with me.

Got to love the condo haters. Hey, condos are jus...

2008-08-14T16:36:03.584-05:00

Got to love the condo haters. Hey, condos are just apartments that are individual owned in a building where as an apartment complex is owned by one corporation or individual.

Not all condos in Uptown are owner occupied.

Some lower income people live in condos believe it or not all over the country and City.

To make a statement that all condos are occupied by rich people or by rich owners is false.

Got to love the ignorance Helen Shiller and company spreads.

And the WY units will cost more per unit that almost all of the condos in Uptown cost to build.

When compared to the rest of Chicago, Uptown has l...

2008-08-14T16:32:20.331-05:00

When compared to the rest of Chicago, Uptown has less than half of the rate of homeownership. We need more condo conversions and not less. Let the other neighborhoods deal with getting more rental units. That's not Uptown's problem for now.

Life is all about adapting to changes. People who can't adapt will have problems that they will need to face. If they don't know where housing exists, then they have more problems than anything any of us can do for them.

{I honestly would like to know where these places ...

2008-08-14T14:17:14.518-05:00

{I honestly would like to know where these places are that are ready NOW! Because this useful information should be passed onto others.}

I found the information in the library.

I'd like to be able to find this information in my alderman's office.

The real question is, if there are people in Uptow...

2008-08-14T13:42:31.645-05:00

The real question is, if there are people in Uptown in search of housing, why aren't they trying to move into the existing housing that is available to them RIGHT NOW?

I can not speak for people that do not have anywhere to live because I've never been in that type of situation before and hopefully I will never be in that situation ever.

However. There may be alot of factors of why they don't seek housing outside of UPtown. One possibility could be that they don't know about these outside places and what they have to offer. How could you obtain something that you don't know exist? If these such places do exist it's the responsibility of the caseworkers, social workers, mentors, and leaders of Uptown to let them know about this. SOme people don't know how to find out certain information. They aren't assertive enough to walk into a helping agency and ask question and get information. Most of us are fortunate enough to have extensive formal education behind us. But what about those who are uneducated?

Some people may indeed know of these places. But maybe their confort zone is in uptown. My family has lived in the same apartment complex for 23 years. I know what it's like to even think of moving somewhere other than what you are used to. I know so many people around here. I know pretically where everything is. Sometimes people can not adapt to change. Especially those with certain mental illness. A change in environment may cause more turmoil in thier than what's it worth.

It's easy to say why don't they just do this and just do that when you are not them or have never been them. Every single person have their own unique situation and thinking process. So it's almost impossible to answer questions that don't directly relate to one self.

I honestly would like to know where these places are that are ready NOW! Because this useful information should be passed onto others. If I had this information I wouldn't mind sharing it with those in need. The problem is it's too many people out here that know of these things and don't share it with the people that it will benefit. But I don't understand why not?

Please share this information with me so that I can pass it on. I hate to see homeless people. Not because they bother me, but their situation does. And no one wants to be in a fu**ed up situation.

NO I do agree that there is a lot of subsidized ho...

2008-08-14T13:18:25.682-05:00

NO I do agree that there is a lot of subsidized housing in uptown. And I do agree that subsidized housing should be distributed all over the city, and suburbs. Some suburbs have very very few subsidies available, which I don't agree with. However, I do feel that no more condos should be built here either. I think there should be more nice apartments for those who don't qualify for subsidies but can't quite afford to own. Or those who may qualify for a subsidy and afford market rent but either don't want to live in subsidies apartments or simply isn't far on the waiting list or can't get on.

{I'm sure uptown has lots of other things besides ...

2008-08-14T12:57:22.498-05:00

{I'm sure uptown has lots of other things besides housing. BUt in my opinion not enough because there are still so many people who don't have anywhere to live.}

dacutestmama: There is housing in Uptown that is already built that is available for leasing. There is housing all over the city that is already built and available for leasing right now.

The real question is, if there are people in Uptown in search of housing, why aren't they trying to move into the existing housing that is available to them RIGHT NOW?

Do you think Uptown needs to increase the percentage of subsidized housing? If so, why in Uptown and why not in a neighboring community with a much lower percentage of subsidized housing?

MOTS your so close to excepting personal responsib...

2008-08-14T11:46:03.974-05:00

MOTS your so close to excepting personal responsibility. I see in your post from the months past that your evolving.

Oh, and it should read "YOU'RE so close to ACCEPTING personal responsibility. I see in your POSTS from the months past that YOU'RE evolving."

You know, since we're correcting grammar and all...