I think it is a bad idea... you need more people on the streets of Broadway and Wilson..that is one of the reasons, supposedly, it was built.. otherwise, you are killing the small businesses , or any future businesses that might locate there.. by taking a large chunk of potential patrons around the back door.. this would be REALLY bad urban plannign...
actually jon - i don't think it's a bad idea or bad urban planning. if you look at the existing street grid, they have previously removed/eliminated sunnyside avenue from broadway to racine when they built truman college.
adding a sunnyside pedestrian passage would be a great asset for people who may prefer a shortcut back home after shopping.
personally, i've cut through the alley behind the mcjunken bldg to get to the target, then i will walk up broadway on the return for a change of scenery.
You want to talk bad urban planning...then we can certainly bring up the epitome of bad urban planning: Wilson Yard. But I think what you seem to miss, Jon, is that it's stupid to be able to see the Target store from your front door...and have to walk two extra blocks and then some because no one bothered to do the basic accessibility. Why should Target be more accessible to people farther away from the store than those people who live literally a stone's throw away--and who also have their property taxes invested in the development?
A friend passed along a link to something on this very subject...done by an actual urban planner who knows what he's doing. I think it explains things very well.
I like a combination of Option 1 and Option 2, with sidewalks in tight to Truman's parking structure on north, south, and EAST sides, and a single sidewalk passing under the EL tracks to Sunnyside and Target and Aldi. The nice thing about that is that portions of the north and south sidewalks around Truman are newly-poured, and ALL of those sidewalks would be on publically-owned City Colleges and CTA property...no property acquisition necessary.
Bear, until a few months ago, you had no access at all to Target because it was not open... so walking 2 extra blocks to one for the greater good of the community vs. your self interested needs trumps any complaints in my eyes...
"for the greater good of the community" Jon? Your post couldn't sound more sanctimoniuos if you tried.
Having access to Target, Aldi etc without a huge detour IS for the good of the community. As it stands, I don't think me going around back is going to hurt business on Broadway. I don't frequent the hair salon or scrubs store very often, and now that Alderman Schillers office is closed I have to drop my complaints elsewhere (who am I kidding that office was never open in the first place).
I for one, would prefer this new route to avoid the annoying plethora of bums and crack heads that slither about on Wilson/Broadway. I would like my cousin to walk to and from Truman without having to go north to Wilson. And I would like to see the hundreds of neighbors at sunnyside mall have access to WY without going four extra blocks on montrose. And I would like to see some positive foot traffic in that back area so it doesn't become the next Broadway mall.
Let me see.. a pedestrian corridor between Truman College and Wilson Yard.. for what? Are they to lazy to walk the main streets? Do you want another area that is dark and enclosed that people could hang out and rape, mug and offend other individuals? Or are you just wanting to use more TIF funds for stupid projects? I think it is all of the above!
I'm not familiar with Truman College or behind Target. for clairty, what is a pedestrian passage-a sidewalk or an above ground enclosed passageway that they have all over Minneapolis?
As Bear60640 said, for those of us who live near Sunnyside Mall, adding a pedestrian passage would cut our walk in half. I can balance a box of diapers on a stroller for 2 1/2 blocks; as it is now I'll drive to Target and Aldi if I need something heavy or large. Plus many of us walk down Montrose and to the west of Wilson Yards, which doesn't increase foot traffic on Wilson/Broadway.
No need for a fancy passage, just a path with enough space for a stroller. I don't know what kind of fence exists now, but I doubt it would stop a motivated gangbanger.
Students and staff can easily walk to Red Line. It’s about 100 feet from the school’s front door.
A passageway is an invitation for more crime and tagging. It will be expensive to keep a passageway clean and safe. The city doesn ot have extra cash and cannot maintain the sidewalks it already has.
I suggest using any extra dollars to clean up Wilson Ave under the L tracks.
this would be nice
ReplyDeleteI think it is a bad idea... you need more people on the streets of Broadway and Wilson..that is one of the reasons, supposedly, it was built.. otherwise, you are killing the small businesses , or any future businesses that might locate there.. by taking a large chunk of potential patrons around the back door.. this would be REALLY bad urban plannign...
ReplyDeleteThe Truman College Students, faculty and staff need a better "passage" between the Redline Wilson stop much more then to the retail.
ReplyDeleteHowever, if it also is used as a better access for the residents in the Sunnyside Mall access to WY and Broadway that is good.
actually jon - i don't think it's a bad idea or bad urban planning. if you look at the existing street grid, they have previously removed/eliminated sunnyside avenue from broadway to racine when they built truman college.
ReplyDeleteadding a sunnyside pedestrian passage would be a great asset for people who may prefer a shortcut back home after shopping.
personally, i've cut through the alley behind the mcjunken bldg to get to the target, then i will walk up broadway on the return for a change of scenery.
I am sure that the gang bangers would love the shortcut as well to speed up the attack or the getaway.
ReplyDeleteYou want to talk bad urban planning...then we can certainly bring up the epitome of bad urban planning: Wilson Yard. But I think what you seem to miss, Jon, is that it's stupid to be able to see the Target store from your front door...and have to walk two extra blocks and then some because no one bothered to do the basic accessibility. Why should Target be more accessible to people farther away from the store than those people who live literally a stone's throw away--and who also have their property taxes invested in the development?
ReplyDeleteA friend passed along a link to something on this very subject...done by an actual urban planner who knows what he's doing. I think it explains things very well.
I like a combination of Option 1 and Option 2, with sidewalks in tight to Truman's parking structure on north, south, and EAST sides, and a single sidewalk passing under the EL tracks to Sunnyside and Target and Aldi. The nice thing about that is that portions of the north and south sidewalks around Truman are newly-poured, and ALL of those sidewalks would be on publically-owned City Colleges and CTA property...no property acquisition necessary.
http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=en&msa=0&msid=207718237670076512040.0004a444193ba7c4dc937&ll=41.963419,-87.658458&spn=0.003682,0.008047&t=h&z=18
Bear, until a few months ago, you had no access at all to Target because it was not open... so walking 2 extra blocks to one for the greater good of the community vs. your self interested needs trumps any complaints in my eyes...
ReplyDelete"for the greater good of the community" Jon? Your post couldn't sound more sanctimoniuos if you tried.
ReplyDeleteHaving access to Target, Aldi etc without a huge detour IS for the good of the community. As it stands, I don't think me going around back is going to hurt business on Broadway. I don't frequent the hair salon or scrubs store very often, and now that Alderman Schillers office is closed I have to drop my complaints elsewhere (who am I kidding that office was never open in the first place).
I for one, would prefer this new route to avoid the annoying plethora of bums and crack heads that slither about on Wilson/Broadway. I would like my cousin to walk to and from Truman without having to go north to Wilson. And I would like to see the hundreds of neighbors at sunnyside mall have access to WY without going four extra blocks on montrose. And I would like to see some positive foot traffic in that back area so it doesn't become the next Broadway mall.
Let me see.. a pedestrian corridor between Truman College and Wilson Yard.. for what? Are they to lazy to walk the main streets? Do you want another area that is dark and enclosed that people could hang out and rape, mug and offend other individuals? Or are you just wanting to use more TIF funds for stupid projects? I think it is all of the above!
ReplyDeleteI'm not familiar with Truman College or behind Target. for clairty, what is a pedestrian passage-a sidewalk or an above ground enclosed passageway that they have all over Minneapolis?
ReplyDeleteAs Bear60640 said, for those of us who live near Sunnyside Mall, adding a pedestrian passage would cut our walk in half. I can balance a box of diapers on a stroller for 2 1/2 blocks; as it is now I'll drive to Target and Aldi if I need something heavy or large. Plus many of us walk down Montrose and to the west of Wilson Yards, which doesn't increase foot traffic on Wilson/Broadway.
ReplyDeleteNo need for a fancy passage, just a path with enough space for a stroller. I don't know what kind of fence exists now, but I doubt it would stop a motivated gangbanger.
I’m skeptical about a passageway behind Truman.
ReplyDeleteStudents and staff can easily walk to Red Line. It’s about 100 feet from the school’s front door.
A passageway is an invitation for more crime and tagging. It will be expensive to keep a passageway clean and safe. The city doesn ot have extra cash and cannot maintain the sidewalks it already has.
I suggest using any extra dollars to clean up Wilson Ave under the L tracks.
Ignorance is bliss!
ReplyDelete